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jez2
15 Mar 2009, 04:52 PM
I was wondering about how this worked a while ago, so I spent some time fiddling with the advanced combat sim and figured out how pop affects battles. Thought I'd share :)

It turns out to be pretty simple, just based on the ratio of attacker to defender in a fairly straightforward formula. Here's some values in a table:

http://i452.photobucket.com/albums/qq248/trumpetmanjez/lilguytable.png

And a graph to look at:

http://i452.photobucket.com/albums/qq248/trumpetmanjez/lilguybonus.png

In a nutshell:

A player gets a defence bonus when being attacked by a bigger player, which gets more significant the greater the imbalance in size
Small players do NOT get a bonus when attacking (i.e. the graph does not go below zero)
It maxes out at about 50%, so there if you are 5k pop you will experience the same disadvantage attacking 500 pop and 100 pop people.
I haven't tested siege engines or chiefs, but they seem to be affected in the same way too.

For people who care, the forumula I got (which was pretty accurate, ≈3sf) was:

% Defence bonus = ((fifth root of (attackers pop / defender pop)) - 1) *100

Within the limits mentioned above, i.e. 0-50%

Sidewinder
15 Mar 2009, 04:56 PM
Not sure about the formula (though I'm willing to believe your one if it gives those results which look about right) but the capping at 50% bit is spot on. Liking the graph too, nice to see the info.

Pan
15 Mar 2009, 05:03 PM
Thanks dude, i was wondering about that.

do you know if your info was 100% correct? just wondering. =p seems like you know what your on about.

jez2
16 Mar 2009, 12:10 AM
Cheers, glad some people found it handy :)


Not sure about the formula (though I'm willing to believe your one if it gives those results which look about right) but the capping at 50% bit is spot on. Liking the graph too, nice to see the info.

I'm fairly sure about the formula, those numbers I tried out with both it and the combat sim, and the results were virtually the same (to 2-3 sf, though oddly not exactly... I'll put that down to base defence or something :/). If you're interested I'd have a play yourself, I'd be up for a PM if you could shed any light on it too :)


Thanks dude, i was wondering about that.

do you know if your info was 100% correct? just wondering. =p seems like you know what your on about.

Its pretty accurate. Like I say, I got the raw data from combat sim scenarios then worked backwards, so it should be reliable. Tbph though its probably still easier to just use that rather than messing about with formulae anyway, so its not a big deal. This was mostly for interest really.

taylol
16 Mar 2009, 03:02 PM
very interesting cheers for that :)

CHELSEA!
16 Mar 2009, 03:35 PM
Thanks man great graph

Bloodcurdled
02 May 2009, 11:34 AM
Dunno how I came across this, but I'm suprised at the lack of response. Good that someone took the time to put this together.
I would be more interested if anyone found out how chiefs effectiveness alters as the population difference between the two players increased. Would be handy to know how many chiefs you would need to use before trying to conquer somoene, rather than being baffled everytime it takes more and more hits throughout the server.

Fizzy
02 May 2009, 12:01 PM
http://kirilloid.ru/travian/warsim.php

this already works it out for you

Angers
02 May 2009, 07:26 PM
In the equation - is that TOTAL population or just for the villages concerned?

I'm guessing the former...

Sidewinder
03 May 2009, 12:18 AM
Yup, total accountwide pop.

senator.bg
26 Sep 2009, 03:51 PM
I agree with all information. There is good explaination of combat in:
http://travianwiki.com/wiki/Tutoriales:Combate (spanish wiki)

http://wiki.travianteam.com/en/mediawiki/index.php/Combat
http://wiki.travianteam.com/en/mediawiki/index.php/Catapults
http://wiki.travianteam.com/en/mediawiki/index.php/Scouts

Population based defence bonus is also known as morale bonus/malus. If defender has no troops and he is chiefted/catapulted the abilities of chiefs and catapults are decreased. In this case it is morale malus.

Morale bonus/malus effects: regular attacks/raids, scout-attacks, raids against natural oases, catapults, chiefs.
It doesn't effect: rams, villages with a wonder of the world (http://archive.forum.travian.com/showthread.php?t=98685).

The same bonuses apply to regular attacks/raids, scout-attacks, raids against natural oases.
Natural (unoccupied) oasis has population about 250-500. It seems that population is decreasing if oasis is raided frequently (Kirilloid).
Note: To be fair, if the defender has superior forces, the exponent in the equation above is multiplied by the ratio of offense/defense, reducing the bonus. If this happens, the ratio of populations can exceed 7.5, as long as the bonus is no larger than 50%. (http://wiki.travianteam.com/en/mediawiki/index.php/Combat)

When chiefting same formula can be transformed to:
malus = (defender pop / attackers pop) ^ 0.2
The ratio cannot exceed 1:7.5 (0.132), if it does, 0.132 will still be used as the variable. So the highest malus is approximately 2/3, chief and chieftain will lower loyality by 13-17 and senator will lower loyality by 13-20.

When using catapults another formula is used:
malus = (defender pop / attackers pop) ^ 0.3

The ratio cannot exceed 1:39 (0.0255), if it does, 0.0255 will still be used as the variable. So the highest malus is approximately 1/3.
This ... is equivalent to that of the Stonemason at level 20. (http://wiki.travianteam.com/en/mediawiki/index.php/Catapults)
This is changed on 30th June 2006 (Start of Travian 3): Defence against catapults: Catapults don't do so much damage against significantly smaller accounts anymore.

Runningwolf
03 Oct 2009, 12:03 AM
Has anyone out there tried to build an account with the sole intention of taking and holding a WW plan?
I was thinking of running a account with just a 150% 15c and 2 or 3 supply villages that would build an army to take a WW plan then hold onto it, making use of the pop bonus as the likely attackers after a plan are probably going to easily be 7.5x he pop.

Crannys
03 Oct 2009, 12:12 AM
You would probably struggle to get enough supply to match the armys. Of 9 village, 18 village would probably "hammer" you into the ground. Nobody's tried it because it would fail but getting all your villages cata'd once you had the plan may work. :D

Fizzy
03 Oct 2009, 06:43 AM
on speed the top 100 accs are 20k+ pop, which means you'd need to be about 2600 pop to get the full effect. I guess. you could certainly build a big enough army to clear a natar village. Might be better off letting someone else doing it though and just take it after someone else had cleared it. So you could have an acc with lots of small villages so you can safely keep the plans, say 15 with pop 170-180.

Runningwolf
03 Oct 2009, 10:22 AM
Well 2600 is probably about right, if you set out from the start with the alliance to do this they could help feed res in for troops building.

I will see what hw it goes, I am playing a server I dont really want to spend loads of time on so quietly building troops out in the sticks will be fine and will be interesting to see how it works out.

commander
03 Oct 2009, 10:31 AM
There is no population bonus for WW villages. So you'd be wasting your time.

JACKS HERE
03 Oct 2009, 11:13 AM
Plan :) Not the actual village :D

Darkest
03 Oct 2009, 12:01 PM
This should be a McSticky. :p

jix
03 Oct 2009, 02:45 PM
This should be a McSticky. :p

yes it's a good one, found it this morning :)