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Angers
25 Jul 2009, 11:01 PM
The Armoury and Blacksmith


What are they?
How do they work?
What use are they?
Which troops are affected?
When should I upgrade my troops?
Other considerations
Combat simulations



What are they?

The Armoury and Blacksmith provide improvements to your troops’ attacking and defensive capabilities.

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo10/uber_jnthn/arm.png
The Armoury – This is where you can improve the defence attributes of your troops.
http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo10/uber_jnthn/bs.png
The Blacksmith – Upgrades researched here affect your troops’ attack value.



How do they work?

To build either the Armoury or Blacksmith you need your Main Building to at least level 3 and the Academy at level 1 for the Armoury and level 3 for the Blacksmith.

Once built clicking on the building will show a list the troop types available in that village.


http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo10/uber_jnthn/Blacksmith.png

Notice that alongside each troop type it gives information on its current upgrade level, as well as cost and build times for the next level.

You may only upgrade a troop to the same level as the building. In the picture, the Blacksmith is level 4, this means I could only upgrade any of the troops listed to level 4 before upgrading the Blacksmith.



What use are they?

The Blacksmith and Armoury give a bonus of approximately 1.5% per level to a troop type’s attack or defence values, respectively.

The way to work out what effect the upgrade will have is using the formula:


x*1.015^y

where x is the base attribute value and y is the level of the upgrade to be researched.

Examples
A Phalanx has an infantry defence of 40 and cavalry defence of 50. If upgraded to level 5 in the Armoury, those values will be:


40*1.015^5= 43 (infantry)
50*1.015^5= 54 (cavalry)

A Swordsman has an attack of 65, once upgraded to level 14 in the Blacksmith its attack will be:


65*1.015^14= 80

The Armoury and Blacksmith are most effective when used on an appropriate troop type - defensive troops upgraded in Armoury, offensive troops in the Blacksmith. A Phalanx upgraded to level 20 in the Blacksmith will have an attack value of 15*1.015^20= 20 compared to a Swordsman's starting value of 65 (88 once fully upgraded).



Which troops are affected?

Each upgrade researched in the Armoury/Blacksmith affects:


Only troops of that type from the same village as the Armoury/Blacksmith, including those reinforced elsewhere.
Troops that have already been built and those that will be built.
The upgrade remains effective even if the Armoury/Blacksmith is destroyed.

They do not affect:

Any reinforcements, or troops built, from any other villages.
Heroes




When should I upgrade my troops?

Upgrades can be quite expensive and don’t really become cost efficient until you have a decent number of troops already built.

To work out if they’re cost efficient to you follow these steps:


Add the total cost of the upgrade together (Wood+Iron+Clay+Wheat). If we go back to the image above, we see that to upgrade the Swordsman to level 1 will cost 4305 resources.
Next add together how much it would cost to make one of the unit type in question. To make one Swordsman costs 535 resources.
By dividing the total cost of the upgrade by the cost of one troop we can see how many troops we could make instead.

4305/535= 8
Since each upgrade bonus is worth around 1.5% we can either:


(a) Multiply the number of troops we have by 0.015 to show how many extra troops the upgrade is worth to us, or;
(b) Divide the number of troops we could build by 0.015 to show at what point the upgrade becomes efficient.



To work through (a) first – if we have 1000 Swordsmen, then

1000*0.015= 15
So the upgrade is worth 15 extra troops, which is better than the 8 we could build with the same resources.

To work through (b) – we could build 8 extra Swordsmen, so

8/0.015= 534
So for the upgrade to be worth more than the troops we could build with the same resources we should have 534 Swordsmen.

These charts show the affect of the Armoury and Blacksmith on a Phalanx and Swordsman respectively - as well as the total cost, how many troops that could build and the efficiency point for each upgrade.


spacinghttp://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo10/uber_jnthn/Arm_stats-1.pngspacinghttp://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo10/uber_jnthn/Black_stats.pngspacing



Other considerations

There are other pros and cons to Armoury and Blacksmith upgrades that will affect when it becomes efficient for you to research them.

Pros
Upgraded troops become more effective for less wheat consumption.
Upgrades apply to all future production also (even if the Armoury or Blacksmith is destroyed).
Upgrades can be researched in addition to other build orders - useful if you need to use some resources before an attack/the Warehouse overflows.


Cons
It costs resources to upgrade the Armoury/Blacksmith itself.
You don’t get the benefit of extra capacity for raided resources.


Another consideration is where to locate these buildings. The cost of fully upgrading the Armoury/Blacksmith and then fully upgrading a troop type is reasonably large. For this reason many players choose to have dedicated defence and attack villages with the Armoury/Blacksmith fully upgraded as appropriate. By concentrating resources on one location you wont be duplicating the costs of building and research upgrades.



Combat simulations

Finally, a couple of a combat simulations to illustrate the affects of the Armoury and Blacksmith.

First, Phalanx, upgraded in the Armoury, being attacked by some nasty Teutons. Attacker and defender have equal populations, no Wall or Residence, normal attack:


http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo10/uber_jnthn/phx.png

And here, we're attacking some stuck-up Romans with our valiant Swordsmen which are upgraded in the Blacksmith. As before, attacker and defender have equal populations, no Wall or Residence, normal attack:


http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo10/uber_jnthn/sword.png

Angers
25 Jul 2009, 11:03 PM
Any comments gratefully received - especially about the readability/correctness of the maths bits.

mad hammer
26 Jul 2009, 12:14 AM
a little bit of waffle, but well presented!


you may have a badge

chris80210
26 Jul 2009, 12:19 AM
in the maths bit you could do with putting what the ^ means too. Other than that it's pretty easy going. well done :yarr:

Tullia
26 Jul 2009, 12:54 AM
Nice, I like it so far.

Possibly worth a mention of the usefullness of planning ahead and only upgrading relevant attirbute i.e. don't upgrade prets in the balcksmith? a brief toucher on the efficiency of defence/offence villages? it's not needed but might be nice.

The maths works but once you've done an example in detail, how about a mini table with examples for a few, just to give people a second chance to go through it?

From a purely visual point of view, I think the only teeny criticism I might have is that your headings and text merge, so I found it difficult to scan down to different sections - maybe a space under the headings, or a different colour heading? But I am fully aware I am being very persnikety!

guywho
26 Jul 2009, 12:54 AM
yeah seems a good guide to one of the most asked questions :)

Angers
26 Jul 2009, 09:38 AM
Thanks for the comments guys. Have made some additions and working on the combat sims now.

Tullia
26 Jul 2009, 10:09 AM
I really like your new efficiency tables for phalanx and swords :) Great info.

Angers
26 Jul 2009, 10:17 AM
I really like your new efficiency tables for phalanx and swords :) Great info.

Cheers :)

:tullia::tullia::tullia:

Avi
26 Jul 2009, 11:26 AM
Nice guide! I would add into the beginning about defensive and offensive attributes that they represent armoury and weapons, it seems to give people more of a visual about what the buildings actually do. For example one is effectively giving your unit a shield, and one a sword.

Might also be nice to look at the effects of the % on higher and lower values. For example 1.5% applied to a 40 ATK legionnaire has a lot less increase than 1.5% applied to the 180 ATK Equites Caesarius. And that the reason Imperians, Equites Imperatoris and Equites Caesarius are the offensive units is because they have the highest attack values of which the % can be applied so the player is effectively getting more for their resources and exploiting the advantages of a Blacksmith and Armoury to their full potential.

The same goes to the defence units, which could also mention that Equites Caesarius, Haeduans and Teutonic Knights are good all-rounder heavy cavalry units but the cost to replace the losses is too expensive for it to be worth upgrading them defensively and losing them in the form of reinforcements.

Also feel the combat simulator images would fit in better with the Travian theme and imagery.

If it was a more extensive guide, I would then branch into attack and defence per Wheat Consumption in more depth, but it really depends on how much time you want to put into it. The simple guide is great, but I'm a fan of teaching everyone that little bit extra.

Hypersloth
26 Sep 2009, 09:32 PM
Like most here, I found the formula baffling (what’s with the ^?), so had to ask the old man (who’s a maths teacher) for help :oops:. Only for him to go “Ehh?”. Anyway, to cut a long story short, the correct formula is: X(1+0.015*L)= Where X is the start number and L is the level.

So a phalanx level of 40 against infantry, upgraded to level 5 armour, would read: 40(1+0.015*5) = 43

Good guide though :)

EDIT: Ah! I see the source of the fictional maths ^ is the actual 'official' Travian FAQ. Maybe a MOD or other such person of power, should have a word with them (Travian) to sort it out?

EDIT 2: Right, read official Travian guide, didn’t understand it. ‘Dad!’ :long suffering dad comes through-reads pointed out paragraph-says,: “That’s mathematical garbage.”

So, the problem stems from the bit in the official guide that says… “The bonus added by upgrading a unit is estimated to be 1.5% (factor 1.015). This means a unit's defence worth is base_worth*1.015^Armoury_level.”.

The first mistake is the (factor 1.015) it should actually be (factor 1+0.015). The second, is that the ^ sign should actually be *, which conspires to make the table that follows nonsensical.

So there you have it, the official guide is in need of repair.:D

Fizzy
27 Sep 2009, 08:40 AM
I think its a nice guide, and given then number of threads with armoury / blacksmith questions, very useful.

h h h
27 Sep 2009, 12:20 PM
Right. I'm not stupid but I never did maths beyond O Level so the the maths bit os a little confusing to me.

I took it to mean, (when I have looked at this before), that each level of upgrade = 1.015 more than the previous one.

I have never taken the time t calculate these myself, and always worked on a table that I found a long time ago on the .com forums.

I don't think that it is important to understand the formulae.

It's just important to understand and appreciate the benefits.

The one thing that you have not covered in this guide is what troops should be upgraded at either the Blacksmith, the Armoury, or both.

With the information that you have given, a noob player will think that it is beneficial to upgrade, (just using this as an example), Mace at the armoury or Spears/Phalanx at the Blacksmith.

Although technically these 3 troop types will gain a benefit from the upgrades that will make it seem worthwhile, the idea of DEFing with Mace, or ATTacking with Phalanx/Spears is so absurd as to make it irrelevant.

When I have done a smaller version of this guide for inexperienced players, I have spelt out exactly what troops should be upgraded at what building and also specified the "utility" troops that may be upgraded at both, (depending on how the account uses them).

I would also mention scouts in a seperate section because a lot of people are unjaware that there is a benfot to upgrading them at the blacksmith, (because they do not have an OFF value).

Apologies if that is a bit negative. I actually think it's a really good guide for an area that is significantly misunderstood by even semi-experienced players, but I don't think it is the finished article.

Might I suggest the following improvement.

1. A link to a page that will spell out the individual numberat which it is appropriate to upgrade all troops from all races.

2. A detailed instruction as to which troops should be upgraded at what buildings, (and under what curcumstances).

3. A section on scouts explaining why they should be upgraded at both, (giving examples of battle reports/SIMs as proof).

4. I would also point out, (not sure if you have done this but if you have I missed it), that after the building has used to it's limit, then it can be demolished and replaced with a more appropriate building without losing the benefits of the upgrade.

senator.bg
27 Sep 2009, 12:46 PM
According spanish wiki and Kirilloid "1.5% per level" is already not valid.
http://travianwiki.com/wiki/Tutoriales:Combate
http://travian.kirilloid.ru/troops.php

The new formula is:
value = base_value + (base_value + (300*cu/7))*(1,007^lvl − 1)

value — value after upgrade
base_value — base value
cu — crop usage per hour
lvl — level of upgrade

Armory and Blacksmith upgrades apply to scout-attack/scout-deffense also.
- scout-attack (at level 20): +51.6% for Equites Legati and Pathfinder, +33.3% for Scout
- scout-deffense (at level 20): +79.1% for Equites Legati and Pathfinder, +47% for Scout

Upgrading catapults in the Blacksmith also upgrades their power to destroy buildings, by up to 50% at level 20.

Upgrading rams in the Blacksmith also upgrades their power to destroy wals, by up to 50% at level 20.


Expression x ^ n means "x to the power of n" or "x to the nth power", denotes x × x × ... × x, in which x appears n times.


http://travian.kirilloid.ru/troops.php
Here you can see:
- values of attack/deffense after upgrade.
- at which number it is appropriate to upgrade troops (number in yellow after @)

h h h
28 Sep 2009, 08:27 AM
Angers.

This link is something you might find useful (http://archive.forum.travian.com/showthread.php?t=118051)

And this is something I have been referrint o for a while. (http://archive.forum.travian.com/showthread.php?t=104082)

mighty cheese
28 Sep 2009, 07:55 PM
A nice guide - and to all those who are completely clueless, I believe the ^ is put in to show 'To the power of' e.g. 5^4 is equivelant to 5x5x5x5.

Back to the guide: Good, if a little confusing at some places. Also, perhaps you could make another post somewhere with all Armoury/BS equivilant Attack and defence levels for all troops.

Toby
10 Sep 2010, 03:20 PM
According spanish wiki and Kirilloid "1.5% per level" is already not valid.
http://travianwiki.com/wiki/Tutoriales:Combate
http://travian.kirilloid.ru/troops.php

The new formula is:
value = base_value + (base_value + (300*cu/7))*(1,007^lvl − 1)

value — value after upgrade
base_value — base value
cu — crop usage per hour
lvl — level of upgrade

Armory and Blacksmith upgrades apply to scout-attack/scout-deffense also.
- scout-attack (at level 20): +51.6% for Equites Legati and Pathfinder, +33.3% for Scout
- scout-deffense (at level 20): +79.1% for Equites Legati and Pathfinder, +47% for Scout

Upgrading catapults in the Blacksmith also upgrades their power to destroy buildings, by up to 50% at level 20.

Upgrading rams in the Blacksmith also upgrades their power to destroy wals, by up to 50% at level 20.




http://travian.kirilloid.ru/troops.php
Here you can see:
- values of attack/deffense after upgrade.
- at which number it is appropriate to upgrade troops (number in yellow after @)

Yup, this makes a huge difference to some upgrades, the smaller the stat, the bigger the %bonus. This means that the biggest bonuses are going to apply on upgrades you dont want.. and vica versa :(
For example a lv20 defence upgraded maceman has a cavalry defence rating of 12, 240% of its initial value, Imperians on the other hand get only 28% bonus from their attack. If the bonus were 1.5% then the total would be 35%.

shamolla
06 Jan 2011, 06:02 PM
Like most here, I found the formula baffling (what’s with the ^?), so had to ask the old man (who’s a maths teacher) for help :oops:. Only for him to go “Ehh?”. Anyway, to cut a long story short, the correct formula is: X(1+0.015*L)= Where X is the start number and L is the level.

So a phalanx level of 40 against infantry, upgraded to level 5 armour, would read: 40(1+0.015*5) = 43

Good guide though :)

EDIT: Ah! I see the source of the fictional maths ^ is the actual 'official' Travian FAQ. Maybe a MOD or other such person of power, should have a word with them (Travian) to sort it out?

EDIT 2: Right, read official Travian guide, didn’t understand it. ‘Dad!’ :long suffering dad comes through-reads pointed out paragraph-says,: “That’s mathematical garbage.”

So, the problem stems from the bit in the official guide that says… “The bonus added by upgrading a unit is estimated to be 1.5% (factor 1.015). This means a unit's defence worth is base_worth*1.015^Armoury_level.”.

The first mistake is the (factor 1.015) it should actually be (factor 1+0.015). The second, is that the ^ sign should actually be *, which conspires to make the table that follows nonsensical.

So there you have it, the official guide is in need of repair.:D

What a load of nonsense. I know this is old but don't spout nonsense. If your dad really said what you say he said he's not very good at maths. I don't care if he's a maths teacher he's awful. This is basic maths for anyone who is any good at maths and if he doesn't know these symbols he must be a primary school teacher cos its BASIC.

Brush up on your maths before you start posting stuff like that!!!!:p:rolleyes: