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angL
26 Feb 2010, 10:43 PM
Introduction:
In this guide, I'm going to show you how many defensive units you can get in one village without GS/GB, calculated with level 20 buildings, researches and Watering Place for Romans.

This guide is intended for Travian 3.6, Normal Servers. For speed servers, you would only have to multiply the numbers for appropirate speed.
I originally sat down to compile these numbers to remove the myth: "Teutons can't build Anvils".
This will be an objective thread that will only deal with numbers.
For the purpose of this guide, I've ignored tribes' wall defenses. This is because of following reasons:

The walls are supposed to be balanced within themselves, like Roman Wall providing the biggest bonus but very vulnerable, Teutons being the exact opposite, and Gauls being somewhere in between.
For when this guide would actually be relevant (After first quarter of the server), you will be likely playing in an alliance and reinforcing random players / WWs. So the wall level is irrelevant for this reason.


Individual Troops (http://archive.forum.travian.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1073428&postcount=2)
Anvils (http://archive.forum.travian.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1073431&postcount=3)
Hammer vs Anvil (http://archive.forum.travian.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1073434&postcount=4)

angL
26 Feb 2010, 10:44 PM
Individual Troops
This post will show how many defensive troops each tribe will build in twenty-four hours with level 20 buildings. I've naturally omited Scouts from the list. I also left Macemen and Swordsman for being objectively worse than Spearman and Phalanx, respectively. I've also left Teutates Thunder for being worse than any other alternative Gauls have. You can see for yourself which units produce the highest amount of defense per day, for a specific purpose or in total.


Nm Wh Name Inf. Cav. Tot.

Teutons:
553 553 Spearman 26046 44682 70728
257 514 Paladin 34617 13852 48469
208 624 Tutonic Knight 13998 21008 35006

Gauls:
595 595 Phalanx 32070 40043 72113
205 615 Haeduan 13796 45551 59347
241 482 Druidrider 37330 17858 55188

Romans:
400 400 Legionnaire 18840 26920 45760
351 351 Preatorian 30712 16532 47244
303 606 Equites Imp. 26512 20391 46903
227 681 Equites Cea. 24447 32097 59544

Nm: Number of this unit produced per day.
Wh: Daily wheat consumption.
Inf: Infantry Defense.
Cav: Cavalry Defense
Tot: Total Defense.

angL
26 Feb 2010, 10:46 PM
Anvils
In this post, I will compare different options to build in your anvil / defense villages.


Wheat Units Inf. Cav. Total

Teutons:
1067 Spearman & Paladin 60663 58534 119197
1177 Spearman & Teutonic Kn. 40044 65690 105734

Gauls:
1210 Phalanx & Haeduan 45866 85600 131466
1077 Phalanx & Druidrider 69400 57901 127301

Romans:
1006 Legionnaire & Equites I. 45352 47311 92663
1081 Legionnaire & Equites C. 43287 59017 102304
957 Praetorian & Equites I. 57224 36923 94147
1032 Praetorian & Equites C. 55159 48629 103788

Wheat: Daily wheat consumption.
Inf: Infantry Defense.
Cav: Cavalry Defense


Best of Total Defense:

Phalanx & Haeduan [131,466 Def, 1210 Wheat, 108 Def/Wheat]
Phalanx & Druidrider [127,301 Def, 1077 Wheat, 118 Def/Wheat]
Spearman & Paladin [119,197 Def, 1067 Wheat, 111 Def/Wheat
Spearman & Teutonic Kn. [105,734 Def, 1177 Wheat, 89 Def/Wheat]
Praetorian & Equites C. [103,788, 1032 Wheat, 100 Def/Wheat]
Legonnaire & Equites C. [102,304, 1081 Wheat, 94 Def/Wheat]



Top Three Infantry Defense:

Phalanx & Druidrider [69,400]
Spearman & Paladin [60,663]
Praetorian & Equites I. [57,224]


Top Three Cavalry Defense:

Phalanx & Haeduan [85,600]
Spearman & Teutonic Kn. [65,690]
Legonnaire & Equites C. [59,017]

angL
26 Feb 2010, 10:49 PM
Hammer vs Anvil
In this post, I will compare how tribes' daily anvils fare against hammers.

I've calculated the hammers' attack powers with Kirilloid (http://travian.kirilloid.ru/).
I've calculated for Barracks & Stables & Workshop, and without Great Stables & Great Barracks, for a period of 24 Hours. My reasoning was, I've calculated Anvil numbers without GS & GB so the numbers with G & GS for both would be more or less the same as these (although more in anvils' favours).
I only made the difference for Teutons for Axe and Mace, since there are people who are fanatic about one or another. For Gauls, I chose Haeduans, for Romans, I chose Imperians and Equites Caesaris.
I've given infantry and cavalry comparaisons seperately.
A check means the anvil meets or exceeds the hammer's given type of attack.
A cross means the anvil fails to meet the hammer's given type of attack.


http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/1694/hammervsanvil.jpg

the_one_in_black
26 Feb 2010, 11:07 PM
is it not possible to have phalanx,druids and haeds?

angL
26 Feb 2010, 11:09 PM
Of course it's possible to have an anvil composed of different elements. These posts only show you how many def of what kind you'd reach emphasising on 1 infantry defender and 1 cavalry defender for 24 hours. :)

yddraigcoch
26 Feb 2010, 11:42 PM
if its not to much work what about an adding the wheat consumption stats too the total def table please from there can work out the def points/wheat myself but to tired to do it now.

angL
26 Feb 2010, 11:52 PM
if its not to much work what about an adding the wheat consumption stats too the total def table please from there can work out the def points/wheat myself but to tired to do it now.

Added wheat consumption and def/wheat lists to the total defense breakdown section. Please tell me if you want something else.

yddraigcoch
26 Feb 2010, 11:58 PM
Added wheat consumption and def/wheat lists to the total defense breakdown section. Please tell me if you want something else.

tomorrows lottery numbers please but pm them to me as don't want everyone knowing them.:happy:

angL
26 Feb 2010, 11:59 PM
tomorrows lottery numbers please but pm them to me as don't want everyone knowing them.:happy:4 8 15 16 23 42

Good luck. :)

alistairods
27 Feb 2010, 11:38 AM
is it me or did that just prove that tuets are better than romand at deffence

mind blowing

angL
27 Feb 2010, 11:40 AM
is it me or did that just prove that tuets are better than romand at deffence

mind blowingThat was exactly what I thought after I had compiled all the data, but I didn't want to be the first person to say it out loud. :)

[Spearman & Paladin] combination seems to be the third best overall defense foundation after Gaul defenses, the second overall best defense/crop, and second best infantry defense overall.

Clearly, Teutons can't be played defensively. :)

justcheckin
27 Feb 2010, 12:31 PM
That's is actually a really good guide. Well done!

angL
27 Feb 2010, 01:33 PM
Updated the guide! Hammer vs Anvil (http://archive.forum.travian.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1073434&postcount=4) where I compare anvils and hammers and mark where anvils meet to stop the hammers.

NosajDraw
27 Feb 2010, 01:40 PM
Updated the guide! Hammer vs Anvil (http://archive.forum.travian.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1073434&postcount=4) where I compare anvils and hammers and mark where anvils meet to stop the hammers.This discussion makes no sense to me.

I can't make head nore tail of the colourful table youve made. and surely an Anvil vs. Hammer discussion needs to be about what actually defeats what and actual production.

It makes no sense at all to build an anvil with GB and GS, you would use barracks and stables in other villages.

So for me when it comes down to what can be produced over what time it needs to be a comparison based on maxed out hammer production vs. what could be produced for the same amount of resources by an anvil.

Also, to find the best anvil, we need to compare to various normal hammer types and see what size and makeup an anvil needs to be to defeat the given hammers.

angL
27 Feb 2010, 01:52 PM
So for me when it comes down to what can be produced over what time it needs to be a comparison based on maxed out hammer production vs. what could be produced for the same amount of resources by an anvil.There isn't a large amount of difference between resources spent on an anvil from Barrack/Stable, or a hammer without GS/GB. And as for resources, for the same amount of res you'd spend on a hammer, you can build an anvil 2,5 times larger.


For example, a Barracks/Stable production costs 1 resource. For the sake of discussion, say it's the same for an anvil and hammer (while in reality Anvil costs are cheaper, since they lack siege weapons which I included in my calculations).
B/S/GB/GS production would cost 5 resource.
A hammer would have 2 Productions, while 5 Anvil Villages would have 1 set of anvil production.



Also, to find the best anvil, we need to compare to various normal hammer types and see what size and makeup an anvil needs to be to defeat the given hammers.I think, like there isn't a definitive discussion for what makes the best hammer, I believe the same could be said for the anvils. There are too many variables to consider. You could employ the best Infantry defense anvil and be swept out by a Ghost Hammer.

It was the purpose of my calculations to have an idea on how well could an anvil fare. Amount of defense produced and such are calculable, solid numbers. I already crossed the line a little with comparaison to hammers, but even that is meant to be a guideline.

It seems, for example, Spear & Pala production would provide better rounded defenses than Phalanx & Haeduan, despite the latter having more defenses overall.

Or, for a WW Defense effort, all tribes could focus on providing highest amount of defense / day instead of shooting for rounded figures.

Such observations were my objectives, and I believe I've reached 'em. If you'd like the csope of these series expanding though, I'm open to suggestions.

NosajDraw
27 Feb 2010, 04:09 PM
Personally, using your tables as a guide I would say the best defense mix for a single race is Phalanx and Druidriders.

But I am far from convinced that your tables show things that can really be compared.

angL
27 Feb 2010, 04:11 PM
Personally, using your tables as a guide I would say the best defense mix for a single race is Phalanx and Druidriders.

But I am far from convinced that your tables show things that can really be compared.I only compared the amount of defense that would be produced in a single day built non-stop. On what else ground could a tribe's anvil production could be compared against?

I'd appreciate a sincere answer so I can work more on the guide. Thank you.

commander
27 Feb 2010, 04:28 PM
It seems you have gone for an infantry/cavalry mix defence for each. What about Praet and legs?

Because really, nobody in their right mind should be building EI and EC as defence units. :)
(apologies if I missed the praet/leg combo anywhere..I didn't see it in the first tables.)

angL
27 Feb 2010, 04:37 PM
It seems you have gone for an infantry/cavalry mix defence for each. What about Praet and legs?

Because really, nobody in their right mind should be building EI and EC as defence units. :)
(apologies if I missed the praet/leg combo anywhere..I didn't see it in the first tables.)
I know that Roman Anvils are usually a mixture of Praet/Lego unless when paired up with a Teuton player, etc. But for the sake of simplicity (And since I really don't know what kind of ratios Roman anvils shoot for when building their troops) I only listed all-lego, all-prae versions, but I could easily add a lego/prae anvil into the lists, if I knew what kind of ratios should I shoot for.

And as for EI - EC defences; since Teutons and Gauls have the option of greater amount of defense foundation with running a barracks and stable simultaneously, I've thus also included them as an option should a person shoot for them. And given the fact that they offer not too shabby defences for their wheat consumption, maybe they should be considered for future anvil uses, at least at WW Efforts? :)

Jon10
27 Feb 2010, 04:40 PM
Legs abilities defence wise are very often over-loooked.

They have the same cavalry def as Phalanx & are only 5 points behind on infantry def.

Also in terms of wheat consumed per hour\overall def they are the same as Druids, both giving 85 def points (total) PWH.

Prince o Orange
19 May 2011, 01:34 AM
I had been thinking of writing a myth-busting guide to defending with Teutons, but clearly there is no need. Well done!

Oshova
27 Jun 2011, 11:25 AM
A great guide all round, as a Gaul player I should use Phal/Druid (as it gives the best mix) But, I usually end up training a lot of Haeds in my deff villages (especially if they're croppers) This way I can attack from all over the place to cover a big non-siege attack from my hammer, and still do some damage. It's a stupid idea for a deff player, but it fills those empty weeks of deff training =p

Oshova