PDA

View Full Version : Guide to using Horse Drinking Trough



Giant Killer
24 Apr 2010, 10:39 AM
Credit to Indian Knight/Giant Killer for the content of this guide.
Indian Knight from Indian Server is the same person as Giant Killer in uk forum


http://img.travian.org/img/pferdetraenke.jpg

Introduction to building and functions

The horse drinking trough of the Romans decreases the training time of cavalry and the upkeep of these troops as well. Also it can be built in Roman wonder of the world villages.

Prerequisites:
Stable level 20, Rally Point level 10, Tribe: Romans, Travian Version 3.5 or higher

The horse drinking trough in detail:
1. Can only be built by romans.
2. Accelerates the production time of cavalry units by 1% per level.
3. The horse drinking trough lowers the crop consumption of all roman cavalry units in that village.
4. Equites Legati consume one crop less at level 10.
5. Equites Imperatoris consume one crop less at level 15.
6. Equites Caesaris consume one crop less at level 20.
7. The maximal level is 20.

Before the HDT the EI's had an offensive value per crop upkeep of 40 while the EC was 45...so, according to this long term perspective, the EC's was the best offensive cavalry of the roman empire before HDT

After the HDT gets put into place the offensive value per crop upkeep of both troop types are 60 - so completely equal. This shows that you can save the last 5 expensive upgrades of the HDT if you look only at the long term offensive value.
Of course, if you build it to level 20 you get 5 % faster training time. And the EC is also slightly better at defending - although this troop type shouldn't be used for that.

What suggests using the using the EI instead of EC's is their travel speed, their ability to carry more resources and their faster training time.

EC's are better without the HDT, EI's are better with the HDT. If you choose to use EI's in your hammer, consider building the HDT to level 20 anyway. It improves your ability to build ur hammer and greatly improves your CP prod...!!

Giant Killer
24 Apr 2010, 10:40 AM
Resources for Building levels & Building construction times

http://i42.tinypic.com/2jdqhpg.jpg


Building construction times 8 - 12

http://i39.tinypic.com/9rr5mg.jpg

Giant Killer
24 Apr 2010, 10:41 AM
reduction in times and consumption

At level 10 the crop consumption of Equites Legati is reduced by 1
At level 15 the crop consumption of Equites Imperatoris is reduced by 1
At level 20 the crop consumption of Equites Caesaris is reduced by 1

Training Time of EL:

http://i39.tinypic.com/97ns0i.jpg



Training Time of EI:
http://i44.tinypic.com/12304k0.jpg



Training Time of EC:
http://i43.tinypic.com/e05sn6.jpg

Giant Killer
24 Apr 2010, 10:42 AM
Advantages and disadvantages brought to the Roman tribe

PROs
1. Equites Legati will produce slightly faster than a Scout
2. Equites Legati will give a greater (double) defense/upkeep than Scout and Pathfinder if they happen to stay in a village during an attack
3. Equites Legati will travel faster than a Scout
4. Equites Imperatoris will have higher attack/upkeep than the Haedaun and Teutonic Knight
5. Equites Imperatoris will also travel faster than the Haedaun and Teutonic Knight
6. Equites Imperatoris will also raid more than the Haedaun and Teutonic Knight
7. Good CP generator at every level

CONs
1. You need to waste a construction zone for the building
2. Will probably cost a 'ridiculous' amount of resources to build

Giant Killer
24 Apr 2010, 10:44 AM
FAQ

1. In the rally point, there will be written the total consumption by the troops, the rally point won't use the reductions in the wheat consumption. So if you have 50 EL in the village, with the Horse Drinking pool level 10, in the rally point you'll see that your troops eat 100 wheat per hour, while they are only eating 50.

2. It's affect only the Cavalry, not Infantry Troops

3. As its a Roman Tribe Specific Building, if You chief a Roman Village, the already built HDT [If built] will disappear.

4. Its affect the Roman Cavalry Troops [EI, EL,EC] only.

Any suggestion here in FAQ are most welcome

Placid
24 Apr 2010, 11:09 AM
''2. Accelerates the production time of cavalry units by 1% per level''
''At level 20 the crop consumption of Equites Caesaris is reduced by 1''

''EC's are better without' the HDT''

Can you explain this ?

sk123
24 Apr 2010, 11:50 AM
so for a hammer EL's are better???

Fearless Fighter
24 Apr 2010, 11:56 AM
Placid i think he meant they were better than the EI's if you have a HDT. but that if you did have one they're the same.

idiotboy212
24 Apr 2010, 12:46 PM
can the drinking trough be built in any roman village?

sk123
24 Apr 2010, 01:29 PM
can the drinking trough be built in any roman village?

yup as long as you got the stables level 20 and the other thing :P

Mouse-Keyboard
24 Apr 2010, 01:37 PM
Why do the EI/EC times only start at level 5/10 stable level?

Giant Killer
24 Apr 2010, 01:57 PM
Why do the EI/EC times only start at level 5/10 stable level?

EI can start researching once you gave Stable Level 5
EC can start researching once you have stable L10


Can you explain this ?

>> Check the table in 3rd post, its explained
>> Every EC consume 3 crops, at HDT L20, it will consume 2
>> Fearless Fighter answered 3rd question

Mouse-Keyboard
24 Apr 2010, 01:59 PM
EI can start researching once you gave Stable Level 5
EC can start researching once you have stable L10

Why haven't you only put the level 20 stable thing then? After all you can only get a HDT with L20 stable.

ThemCrookedVultures
24 Apr 2010, 03:48 PM
The tables are very helpful and I have just built one of these for around 90 k of wood and other daft prices in my hammer building village.. but where you say the EI's are the same as EC's do you mean...

EI's built with the the trough are as good as EC's built without?.. If so, that is cool but I take it EC's built with the trough are better still?

blazing bob
24 Apr 2010, 04:02 PM
The tables are very helpful and I have just built one of these for around 90 k of wood and other daft prices in my hammer building village.. but where you say the EI's are the same as EC's do you mean...

EI's built with the the trough are as good as EC's built without?.. If so, that is cool but I take it EC's built with the trough are better still?

EIs are better than ECs with a level 20 HTD as they give the same attack efficiency but they are cheaper and quicker to train :)

19kylegreer96
25 Apr 2010, 02:15 AM
ok guide but its a little messy

Giant Killer
25 Apr 2010, 06:42 AM
ok guide but its a little messy

I have tried my best to keep it simple but also covering all the aspects.
I am sorry If its feel messy:oops:

V F
25 Apr 2010, 10:57 AM
After the HDT gets put into place the offensive value per crop upkeep of both troop types are 60 - so completely equal. This shows that you can save the last 5 expensive upgrades of the HDT if you look only at the long term offensive value.
Of course, if you build it to level 20 you get 5 % faster training time. And the EC is also slightly better at defending - although this troop type shouldn't be used for that.

What suggests using the using the EI instead of EC's is their travel speed, their ability to carry more resources and their faster training time.

EC's are better without the HDT, EI's are better with the HDT. If you choose to use EI's in your hammer, consider building the HDT to level 20 anyway. It improves your ability to build ur hammer and greatly improves your CP prod...!!

[my bold/italic in above quote]

I've said it before and I'll say it again; if you are building a hammer, then wheat consumption is NOT something you should be concerned about when selecting troop type. . The two cavalry types are not "equal". If you are looking at "long term offensive value" then your claim the EI is better is quite simply wrong, and it's for this reason I cannot support this guide; the majority of the rest of it is fluff/filler copy/pasted from the official FAQ, or clunky over-sized tables containing almost totally irrelevant maths values. [as someone pointed out earlier, why quote training times at a lower level stable than you have to have to have the HWP anyway - the only time I can see this as relevant is if you conquer a village or get catapulted, in which case you might want to work out the best/most cost efficient time to upgrade the building I suppose, but you don't mention that or offer help on it, so I really don't see why you've bothered with the ridiculously huge images].

The ONLY finite resource in Travian is time. The only relevant stat for a good player, when planning a hammer, should be off points/training time. On that basis the EC remains superior to EI: you get more off points per day of 24/7 building.

[I]*note - I have seen an argument that the lower cost of EI and associated infra means that you can start building them 24/7 in both stables sooner which means in the long run you end up with more off points but I have always disagreed with that because I believe a good enough player will find the resources for 24/7 EC achieveable early on enough to overtake an EI builder.

Incidentally, the "resource efficiency" of both cavalry types [i.e. cost per off point produced], assuming 24/7 production with level 20 HWP is actually almost identical, showing that you really do simply "get what you pay for". But that's a minor aside, just something I find quite interesting. And they are actually far more resource efficient than the imperian too, which many people don't realise.

Now there's scope in a HDT guide for a very interesting exploration of the worth of the building I agree, but not for hammers. The best discussion I would like to see in a guide is one which interests *raiders* or *defenders*, and is whether HDT are cost effective allowing you to build more cavalry per village and have them eat less, vs the cost of research and blacksmith/armoury upgrades in another village. There will never be a definitive answer to that one because of the intangible benefits of multiple village production [less raiding/defence power lost if cheifed, increase in raiding area by building raiding troops in a spread out range of villages, decrease in time taken to provide reinforcements to friends by building defence in a spread out range of villages and being more likely to have one closer] but it would be an interesting area to see some intelligent discussion of the various pros and cons.

I'm sorry but I think this guide needs a lot of revision and clarification, and a reduction in the plagiarism level too ;)

blazing bob
25 Apr 2010, 11:04 AM
and a reduction in the plagiarism level too ;)

http://archive.forum.travian.in/showthread.php?p=86913 :rolleyes:

V F
25 Apr 2010, 01:05 PM
http://archive.forum.travian.in/showthread.php?p=86913 :rolleyes:

I was actually referring to the amount of FAQ copy/pasting, I had assumed Giant Killer was the same person as Indian Knight... if they aren't, then I agree they should certainly credit the OP.

scorpiain
25 Apr 2010, 01:08 PM
While all the numbers balance out to be equal attack points per wheat, there is still definalty something stronger about an Ec hammer. I dont know why, but it nearly ALWAYS does more damage.

See here ;


http://travian.kirilloid.ru/log.php?E4BHD-CPn7OJzRAHACA --------- Ei's

http://travian.kirilloid.ru/log.php?EwCPHuBLOjXbzBAHACA --------Ec's

commander
25 Apr 2010, 11:58 PM
EI are actually marginally better attack per wheat than EC with horse thingy when lvl 20 blacksmith is taken into acount...

As for attack/time, well EC will always be on top, but it doesn't necessarily make them automatically the only choice.

notorious crunchie
14 Jul 2010, 04:44 AM
EI's and EC's build with a level 20 Horse Drinking Trough(HDT) consume 1 less wheat each, in that village.

does this still apply if you were to send those troops to another village which doesnt have a HDT?

i thought it did but when i send them elsewhere they seem to not anymore, might be my math..

sk123
14 Jul 2010, 10:35 AM
it might just show as it hasn't changed but it has it just dosen't show :P

MrWibble
15 Jul 2010, 12:39 PM
For those with limited time and/or gold, EIs are a good choice for hammer.

Apart from anything else, EIs make resource management a lot easier as there isn't the huge dependence on iron that you get when you build an Imp/EC hammer.

Mouse-Keyboard
15 Jul 2010, 06:35 PM
For those with limited time and/or gold, EIs are a good choice for hammer.

Apart from anything else, EIs make resource management a lot easier as there isn't the huge dependence on iron that you get when you build an Imp/EC hammer.

EI's are for limited res, EC's are for limited time ;)

Fhuaran
15 Jul 2010, 11:12 PM
EI's and EC's build with a level 20 Horse Drinking Trough(HDT) consume 1 less wheat each, in that village.

does this still apply if you were to send those troops to another village which doesnt have a HDT?

i thought it did but when i send them elsewhere they seem to not anymore, might be my math..

They only get the bonus if they are currently housed in a village (or oasis belonging to a village) containing an HDT of the required level. Other players' roman cavalry is also affected. If the troops are on the move then the village in which the troops were trained must contain a HDT for the reduction.

MrWibble
15 Jul 2010, 11:48 PM
EI's are for limited res, EC's are for limited time ;)

Maybe - depends how much time you need to spend managing the iron shortfall (unless you've got unlimited gold!) ;)

notorious crunchie
16 Jul 2010, 04:32 AM
ok thanks, good to know,

on that basis, if they are in an oasis controled by a village with a level 20 HDT does it apply then aswell do you know?

Fhuaran
16 Jul 2010, 01:46 PM
ok thanks, good to know,

on that basis, if they are in an oasis controled by a village with a level 20 HDT does it apply then aswell do you know?


or oasis belonging to a village containing an HDT of the required level

Affirmative.

Grigori
16 Jul 2010, 06:12 PM
This is an interesting topic :) It seems to me, though, that it still comes down to killing power and time.

Over a period of 4 weeks running both the stable and the GB you can produce:

50877 EIs with an offensive rating of 6105240

or

38158 ECs with an offensive rating of 6868440

That is a difference of 763200. That equates to 6360 extra EIs in terms of killing power, when you build ECs.

So ECs definitely give you more killing power over time than EIs do. However, there are some other elements to consider. Firstly, you can build EIs earlier on as they are quite a bit cheaper, so over the course of a server a purely EI builder would probably be able to produce the same killing power as a purely EC builder.

There is of course another option, that should give you more killing power overall than being a purist. In the early stages of the server you can build much more EIs than you can ECs, and even though the killing power of ECs are greater, the fact that you can build a lot more cancels out that advantage. Then as the server progresses and more resources are available, you switch to building ECs.

The trick as I see it is to be able to keep things running all the time, and that comes down to resources. If you're a raiding monster or your alliances pushes you, you could run ECs from the start, but most won't fall into that category. Therefore, to maximise your killing power it is best to build EIs to begin with as you'll be able to produce an awful lot more of them in the beginning and will end up with more killing power overall.

As for the difference a HDT makes? In my opinion it makes wheat management a little easier to start with, and increases the speed at which troops are built so you get more in the end.

Giant Killer
07 Oct 2010, 08:00 PM
I was actually referring to the amount of FAQ copy/pasting, I had assumed Giant Killer was the same person as Indian Knight... if they aren't, then I agree they should certainly credit the OP.

Yes, I am Indian Knight....
Anybody have any suggestion for FAQ, please let me know.... I'll be more than happy to update:tullia:

Cliffy
24 Oct 2010, 10:07 AM
just to point out, just because you need a lvl 20 stable to build the HDT doesnt mean you need a level 20 great stable, so the times for production are all still relevant and if anything should all start from level 1