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finduxx
23 Nov 2010, 04:44 AM
Hello dear Forum Uk members,

firstly,I have made this guide for Forum.Pk members.But now,I wanted to share it with you all too.
I'm going to copy and paste all because it is already all in English.

THIS IS ONLY A RECOMMENDATION!
It may help you to decide which troop you should choose. It may also help to WW-army owners.

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Here is the original post: forum.travian.pk (http://archive.forum.travian.pk/showthread.php?t=880)
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I tried to make a good Guide for you all. All things with all details made by finduxx. But it took my much time... I dont have enough time to work on it more. So I am going to share it now.
[I had some free time(: and in this time I translated this guide in Turkish for Forum.com.tr . Here is the post: forum.travian.com.tr (http://archive.forum.travian.com.tr/showthread.php?t=47278) ]

There may be some mistakes* on it.. If you find any mistake, just kindly warn me ,I will edit all.

(You have 1 Barrack lvl:20 , 1 Stable lvl:20 , no artifact,no BS,no HDT. And you train non-stop for 8 months.Here, the period is not important so much. It would be 5 months, too. You will just see that which hammer is the best,which hammer is the most expensive etc. in limited time.)

You can decide which hammer you should have by looking at these informations.


These are the informations and details about the Tribes:

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/7269/teutonfinduxx.png

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/3487/romanfinduxx.png

http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/182/gauls.png

finduxx
23 Nov 2010, 04:49 AM
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/7537/1saatliksaldirigucu.png

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/6010/besthammercombofinduxx.png


Do not think that it is impossible to train this hammer in normal servers. It's not the point that I want to tell.
In the same time period, we tried all Tribes's troops to see which has the best Hammer-Combination.(Infantry&Cavalry)
I havent add Catapults and Rams and some other troops.


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Extra I: I have added HDT and Catapult & Ram effects in my calculations. A rough calculation.
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http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/7456/yalakdahilhesaplamaengu.png


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Extra II: A comparison between Maceman & Axeman.
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http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/1899/byfinduxxadsdisadsofmac.png



Note: This guide made with html-codes by using calculator.exe and paint.exe


Edit: Download links removed. If you want PM me.



Have fun.

finduxx

Cryos
23 Nov 2010, 04:50 AM
Uhmm. . .Pallies/EI/TTs shouldn't be mentioned in conjunction with hammer really or compared.

Personally I find they are not needed to be mentioned in this guide. Pallies are defense troops, TTs blitz raiders and EI a sub standard attack troop.

Just curious here, nothing to question your numbers or anything, but what tools did you use to verify all this?

finduxx
23 Nov 2010, 04:58 AM
Uhmm. . .Pallies/EI/TTs shouldn't be mentioned in conjunction with hammer really or compared.

Personally I find they are not needed to be mentioned in this guide. Pallies are defense troops, TTs blitz raiders and EI a sub standard attack troop


Thanks for comment. I want to hear your general thought,too.
And.. T.Thunders.. Other 2 tribes,Teuton and Roman has 2 different choices as Cavalry&Infantry. So I did not want to leave alone Gauls wiht only Haeduan.
And Paladins... I just want to get attantion to the effect of W:20 level to it's attack value > %38,4

And tools.. I just used Windows's calculation program..

Cryos
23 Nov 2010, 05:04 AM
Thanks for comment. I want to hear your general thought,too.
And.. T.Thunders.. Other 2 tribes,Teuton and Roman has 2 different choices as Cavalry&Infantry. So I did not want to leave alone Gauls wiht only Haeduan.
And Paladins... I just want to get attantion to the effect of W:20 level to it's attack value > %38,4

Technically No, each tribal hammer takes the troop that gives them the most attack power, because that's what count when you make a hammer. The price of those troops are expensive yes, but when making a WW hammer you have some serious raiding and/or cheating going on :P

The combos are Mace(Usually)/TK, Imps/EC, and Haeds/Swordies without question.

What I would like to see with guides is more of the best infantry:calvary and ram:cata ratios, which imo would be more helpful to the lesser experienced players

finduxx
23 Nov 2010, 05:27 AM
Technically No, each tribal hammer takes the troop that gives them the most attack power, because that's what count when you make a hammer. The price of those troops are expensive yes, but when making a WW hammer you have some serious raiding and/or cheating going on :P

The combos are Mace(Usually)/TK, Imps/EC, and Haeds/Swordies without question.

What I would like to see with guides is more of the best infantry:calvary and ram:cata ratios, which imo would be more helpful to the lesser experienced players


Ratios or many details would be added but I couldn't add them cause of no time.

By looking at the latest and third table, beginners can decide their starting strategies. Also other players who wanna make a hammer for WW may decide the hammer combo*. Each tribes have 2 options as infanty&cavalry. Also they can see some other details too, which will be expensive,powerfull... With which troop should start etc..

Anyway.. Thanks for your comments Cryos.

commander
23 Nov 2010, 09:44 AM
EI's are a perfectly good option after the introduction of the HDT, however the paladins obviously shouldn't be in a WWK, and I really wouldn't go TT personally, but its ok for comparison purposes.

Something you could try and take into account is the fact that the mace/tk army actually becomes more expensive than the axe/tk army I believe, after a certain point in time, due to feeding extra wheat consumption.

As for ratios as suggested, I don't think its that important. What is important is to build infantry/cavalry 24/7 ASAP, and let the barracks/stable make the ratio. However you could add it is vital to get the catapults going very early. :idea: Too many people end up with below par siege.

Other than that its good, simple information, laid out well for anyone not aware of kirilloid.

Fizzy
23 Nov 2010, 09:56 AM
Something you could try and take into account is the fact that the mace/tk army actually becomes more expensive than the axe/tk army I believe, after a certain point in time, due to feeding extra wheat consumption.


18 days I believe.


Cant remember the maths.

err....

1 mace costs 250 resources, 1 ax costs 490

equiv attack value of 1 ax is 1.5 mace

1.5 mace = 375 cost

so difference is 115 resources.

time take for 1.5 mace to eat 115 more wheat than 1 ax = 9.5 days

hmm, much less than 18 days. Either my maths is off or its not 18 days

Purplejelly86
23 Nov 2010, 11:31 AM
Hmm, found it all a bit confusing myself. Anyway what type servers this for?

Master Blaster
23 Nov 2010, 11:45 AM
18 days I believe.


Cant remember the maths.

err....

1 mace costs 250 resources, 1 ax costs 490

equiv attack value of 1 ax is 1.5 mace

1.5 mace = 375 cost

so difference is 115 resources.

time take for 1.5 mace to eat 115 more wheat than 1 ax = 9.5 days

hmm, much less than 18 days. Either my maths is off or its not 18 days


I thought it was 16 days for some reason but yes axe do become cheaper for a hammer but give less off points per build time which is the most important factor

Fizzy
23 Nov 2010, 11:52 AM
I thought it was 16 days for some reason but yes axe do become cheaper for a hammer but give less off points per build time which is the most important factor

well, Im hoping someone will either vindicate or villify my maths for me, either that or I'll have to do some searching on the forum.

Off points against time is normally the most important factor, but not always. A mace only hammer requires other accounts to store except in exceptional circumstances, and a fast build artefact would exacerbate that situation

MouthOfTGR
23 Nov 2010, 12:02 PM
there have been hammers built with paladins actually. i got no report, but if i recall correctly, crazy teuton had paladins instead of tk. a very special player.

orville
23 Nov 2010, 02:36 PM
18 days I believe.


Cant remember the maths.

err....

1 mace costs 250 resources, 1 ax costs 490

equiv attack value of 1 ax is 1.5 mace

1.5 mace = 375 cost

so difference is 115 resources.

time take for 1.5 mace to eat 115 more wheat than 1 ax = 9.5 days

hmm, much less than 18 days. Either my maths is off or its not 18 days


although i'm much too lazy to do the math atm, i think the difference lies within build times, not simply "attack value". Your math is correct, however i'm not sure you can build 1.5 mace per axe buildtime.

although if my memory is correct, buildtime is approx 1.66:1 mace:axe... meaning the crop consumption difference would run out quicker?

ah well, i'll figure it out later when i'm not lazy (especially since i know somebody will come in and figure it out before then)

Mouse-Keyboard
23 Nov 2010, 05:49 PM
EI's are a perfectly good option after the introduction of the HDT, however the paladins obviously shouldn't be in a WWK, and I really wouldn't go TT personally, but its ok for comparison purposes.

Something you could try and take into account is the fact that the mace/tk army actually becomes more expensive than the axe/tk army I believe, after a certain point in time, due to feeding extra wheat consumption.

As for ratios as suggested, I don't think its that important. What is important is to build infantry/cavalry 24/7 ASAP, and let the barracks/stable make the ratio. However you could add it is vital to get the catapults going very early. :idea: Too many people end up with below par siege.

Other than that its good, simple information, laid out well for anyone not aware of kirilloid.

For 300 days of building with GB:


Troops WC Res Total Attack Attack/tRes
Mace 532,997 1,918,789,200 266,498,500 2,185,287,700 21,319,880 0.00975609756097561000
Axe 319,798 1,151,272,800 313,402,040 1,464,674,840 19,187,880 0.01310043668122270000

100 days on speed:


Troops WC Res Total Attack Attack/tRes
Mace 532,997 639,596,400 266,498,500 906,094,900 21,319,880 0.02352941176470590000
Axe 319,798 383,757,600 313,402,040 697,159,640 19,187,880 0.02752293577981650000

finduxx
24 Nov 2010, 02:45 AM
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/1899/byfinduxxadsdisadsofmac.png

Purplejelly86
25 Nov 2010, 03:02 PM
Why do you even mention maces defence? Defence has nothing to do with hammer building, and if your mace get caught at hope and die, you don't deserve then imo.

Fizzy
25 Nov 2010, 03:14 PM
Why do you even mention maces defence? Defence has nothing to do with hammer building, and if your mace get caught at hope and die, you don't deserve then imo.


Whilst its a small issue, it is an issue. If youve got 5k of ax stored somewhere, and by chance they get hit by 100TTs on a random farming run, you will lose a lot less.

commander
25 Nov 2010, 03:32 PM
Indeed, and saying someone doesn't deserve them/is a noob/is stupid/other usual comments if they leave them at home, isn't quite as black and white as is portrayed.

I for one did not want to constantly have the maximum neg wheat I could have 'just so troops weren't sitting at home'. Obviously I raided with some...but I wasn't going to maintain a ridiculous neg wheat just so they weren't sitting in my cap or whatever. Not that I used mace..but point still applies. :D

SmOkE s2
27 Dec 2010, 04:45 PM
tbh this guide does not include one of the major points to any wwk builder and its upkeep, and where it does it counts the roman cav as using no dp, what roman in there right mind wouldnt have one?

ElementalGoDz
27 Dec 2010, 06:17 PM
I can see you spent about an hour or maybe more working on this but it is just too distracting and disturbing, for example:

[1] Too many different colours
[2] Images are un-neat
[3] It has stretched the page horizontally

finduxx
20 May 2011, 11:54 PM
:) You may be right for colours but you said 1 hour friend!
Try to do it in 1 hour :) use html codes you will write them all codes and infos ,use a calculator,use paint.exe or another program,get the original icons and informations from web..And think that you have no any idea(you never seen that) when you first start doing.. (no hard feeling ;) )

Sleeping Dragon
21 May 2011, 02:27 PM
I found this an amazingly useful guide and disagree with the comennt that TT and EIs should be excluded. If nothing else its worth including them to make the point why TTs in a hammer are rare - some people like to see the figures for themselves rather than just be told!

The key is to allow players to work out what is the best hammer they can develop given their own account's limit in time, and/or resources.

I have usefully sent a swords TT hammer once from a small acount where resources were short so TTs was the best option not least as TTs began coming off the hammer village three weeks earlier than haeds and that skewed the numbers in favour of TTs as my hammer was also the first to go in on the enemy WW. Yes I usually go for swords and haeds but this was one occasion when the build time worked in favour of TTs. EIs are still not as good an option as ECs despite the HCD but, again, EIs can start to come off the conveyor belt much earlier with the HCD benefit earlier as well and that can skew the analysis in favour of EIs depending on the account and when the WWK needs to be ready

My comments would be it may need to be rerun for HCDs perhaps? and also perhaps to take account of quicker development of TTs and EIs as the extra weeks of build (plus resources you save from the extra academy and HCD levels not being needed if you go for a TT or EI hammer) partly compensates for the loss of firepower. I also think that analysis on the right mix of rams and catas would be helpful together with what a 100% rammer or 100% hammer should look like in the same 8 month timeframe

I dont feel so bad about my 100k sword 12k cata hammer now which took 7 months :)

finduxx
21 May 2011, 04:17 PM
Thanks for comment Sleeping Dragon:)

If you know when should train TTs or EIs, they can be very useful. For example: For the artifacts you will loose many troops. What do you want loose EIs or ECs ?
Also I know many people who prefers TTs to raid better to feed their hammers. Reason may be different to train TTs or EIs.

Cata and rams.. I couldn't add them in my calculations. But for your 12k cata hammer, you are right not to feel bad :)

Enjoy gaming ;)

The Analyst
25 May 2011, 01:24 PM
When I was Gaul my hammer was mostly TT's and Swords. This was for the following reasons;

1. Cost, I did not have the resources to biuld Haed 24/7, and once you are short on res TT's give the most power
2. I am a big raider, raiding wheat to feed the hammer, plus I had a small speed arty (which doubles my raids), TT's bring in far more raid income.

Tried to attach a troop comparison spreadsheet I created 18 months back, but it seems to not like excel, sorry

http://travian-reports.net/uk/raport.php?id=45214a02c1f

An additional thought, when tuets are in a good alliance, if theirs is not the 1st hammer to hit, their alliance friends end up overloaded with wheat from used hammers, so they can switch to mace for a fast power boost and store in used hammer accounts.

commander
25 May 2011, 04:17 PM
I've never been a fan of the 'X troop raids better than Y troop' comment. Sure, comparing certain units right down to the grain and when you only have a few (early game perhaps), then there are clearly better raiding units than others. But if you have 40-50k haeds (or even 20-30k!), you're not going to raid badly just because you didn't build TT's? As a teut I raided with the majority of my TK and 90k of my axe...I didn't raid badly just because I chose axe over mace. They all go out, they all pick up resources, and they all bring them back to my warehouse.

I would never build TT's because 'it will feed my army better'. Haeds are still 'better' (QUICKER!!) than any other tribes cavalry lol.

The Analyst
25 May 2011, 04:57 PM
maybe its a no gold thing, from memory was running neg 14K with no ability to NPC and raiding 'gone away capital croppers' with the double speed TT's is what stopped me hitting starvation. The plan was to have enough TT's to max the raiding, then switch to Haed but the Haed died defending a confed.

commander
25 May 2011, 06:36 PM
Well I can imagine its a ball ache with no gold. NPC is excellent for lazy people like me. :cat:

pure
30 May 2011, 02:45 PM
I dont see spears mentioned anywhere

Prince o Orange
31 May 2011, 12:21 AM
Or phalanx, or praetorians.

Hey, wait a minute, there are hardly any troop types included here! :D

pure
02 Jun 2011, 10:55 PM
poor guide imo

finduxx
14 Jun 2011, 01:10 AM
Will you make a def hammer ?

Kindly,you should read the post and see the tables and then you will see why spears arent there, neither phalanxes nor preats.

pure
31 Jul 2011, 11:01 AM
Anybody can attack with offence troops, it takes a true pro to use spears

Zenn
19 May 2013, 10:00 AM
Brilliant write up - very helpful!