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jawwwwsh
07 Jan 2012, 10:39 AM
Forge/Smithy Upgrade Efficiencies.

This is a set of results showing exactly how many of each troop type you should own before purchasing the next level upgrade in the Forge/Smithy.

Each troop type has been calculated using its most commonly used value (Attack, Infantry defence, Cavalry defence or Scouting power). Legionnaires have two sets of results, one for Attack, one for Cavalry defence.

Teutonic Troops:

http://i39.tinypic.com/103zxmt.png

Gallic Troops:

http://i42.tinypic.com/2zp76gz.png

Roman Troops:

http://i43.tinypic.com/1qnzpd.png

Scouts:

http://i40.tinypic.com/23wvi0z.png

Samantha78
07 Jan 2012, 11:45 AM
Thank you :loveyou: very smart

(and before you think you're going crazy; I added the word forge in, because that's the term used on the UK servers :p)

jawwwwsh
07 Jan 2012, 12:20 PM
I thought it was odd I had named my question thread Forge yet it was Smithy on Com5! Thanks Sammy :loveyou:

I'm going to do a 4th table as I have got the data for scouts as well now!! will edit in a second!!

Samantha78
07 Jan 2012, 12:31 PM
I thought it was odd I had named my question thread Forge yet it was Smithy on Com5! Thanks Sammy :loveyou:

I'm going to do a 4th table as I have got the data for scouts as well now!! will edit in a second!!

duh, I knew there had been something else I meant to ask :D

feel free to make the pics non-transparent as well :angel: ... against the black background, it makes eyes swim + squint :p

(and yeah, figured you were more used to playing on com lol)

wow :O the gap is that big for roman scouts??

jawwwwsh
07 Jan 2012, 12:37 PM
Hahaa yeah, I was like "ok, I've done THAT wrong!" but nope, the data is correct. Teut scouts cost almost twice as much to upgrade AND the improvement each level gives is less than their Roman or Gallic counterparts, so yeah they are almost not worth upgrading!
I forgot about the black background some of you use on here, I'll make them white now!
EDIT - transparency removed!

Mud
09 Jan 2012, 08:04 AM
Jawwwwsh, in all honesty I wouldn't recommend this guide mate. While the theory is very good, the practice isn't.
For instance, taking the teuton scale that you've suggested. Teuts, as we all know, are usually heavy raiders. I personally would much prefer to invest my resources into more macemen than to upgrade their attacking power. The reason for this is because it will increase my raiding total, which in turn will increase the amount of troops that I can build. The cost of building a blacksmith, and then paying for the attack upgrade could buy me a tasty little batch of mace, who in turn can accumulate more resources for me and thus I can create an even bigger group of macemen. The effect, of course, is cumulative.

Similarly, I wouldn't actually recommend upgrading your macemen at all, unless you planned on building a genuine mace hammer. My own personal preference is an axe hammer, due to the lower wheat consumption for the attacking points you get, and wheat becomes key in its maintenance. Therefore, why upgrade your mace at all? Because if you're building an axe hammer, then it means you're only using your macemen to raid with, due to their higher carrying capacity and better speed than the axe equivalent. I know some players like to keep a smaller group of macemen to raid with while keeping their axe hammer intact, allowing it to build unhindered by the vexing day-to-day loses incurred by efficient raiding. If this is the case, you are most likely sending your mace out in small groups of 2, 3, 5 or 10 mace (that will increase as the server progresses). In this scenario, the tiny bonus given to you by your armoury upgrade is negligible and will serve you no good whatsoever. By the time that you're farming with minimum groups of 100 mace as the norm, you're only getting a maximum bonus of +20% attack, so the equivalent of 120 mace. If you're hitting defence, they're likely to have fielded something substantial and those extra theoretical 20 mace will no difference to the outcome of the conflict.

Sorry Jawwwwsh, I commend you for writing a guide, I know its gearing towards enlightening the community, but I believe it should come with a warning to less experienced players :)

Samantha78
09 Jan 2012, 08:46 AM
Jawwwwsh, in all honesty I wouldn't recommend this guide mate. While the theory is very good, the practice isn't.
For instance, taking the teuton scale that you've suggested. Teuts, as we all know, are usually heavy raiders. I personally would much prefer to invest my resources into more macemen than to upgrade their attacking power. The reason for this is because it will increase my raiding total, which in turn will increase the amount of troops that I can build. The cost of building a blacksmith, and then paying for the attack upgrade could buy me a tasty little batch of mace, who in turn can accumulate more resources for me and thus I can create an even bigger group of macemen. The effect, of course, is cumulative.

Similarly, I wouldn't actually recommend upgrading your macemen at all, unless you planned on building a genuine mace hammer. My own personal preference is an axe hammer, due to the lower wheat consumption for the attacking points you get, and wheat becomes key in its maintenance. Therefore, why upgrade your mace at all? Because if you're building an axe hammer, then it means you're only using your macemen to raid with, due to their higher carrying capacity and better speed than the axe equivalent. I know some players like to keep a smaller group of macemen to raid with while keeping their axe hammer intact, allowing it to build unhindered by the vexing day-to-day loses incurred by efficient raiding. If this is the case, you are most likely sending your mace out in small groups of 2, 3, 5 or 10 mace (that will increase as the server progresses). In this scenario, the tiny bonus given to you by your armoury upgrade is negligible and will serve you no good whatsoever. By the time that you're farming with minimum groups of 100 mace as the norm, you're only getting a maximum bonus of +20% attack, so the equivalent of 120 mace. If you're hitting defence, they're likely to have fielded something substantial and those extra theoretical 20 mace will no difference to the outcome of the conflict.

Sorry Jawwwwsh, I commend you for writing a guide, I know its gearing towards enlightening the community, but I believe it should come with a warning to less experienced players :)

Your post does it perfectly ;)

However, it is a question lots of players ask - about when the most economically efficient time is to upgrade - the stats were easily available for T3.6, but I hadn't seen them worked out anywhere at all before for T4 (hence Jawwwwsh being nudged firmly to do :p The advice around whether to go for pure economics or take in wider range of factors hasn't really changed - all those issues are broadly the same as before. But the trigger points have changed.

Mud
09 Jan 2012, 09:09 AM
hence Jawwwwsh being nudged firmly to do

I didn't want to belittle the effort that Jawwwwsh has clearly invested into this guide, merely I endeavoured to suggest that the stats must be taken with pinch of salt.

And thank you Sam :)

jawwwwsh
09 Jan 2012, 11:03 AM
I know exactly what you mean Mud, and I only created this set of results (and assumed it would only be used for) army building. As the smithy only upgrades attack points, you should not consider Smithy upgrades when microraiding at all, as attack during microraiding is negligible, being only a few troops each hit.

Moog
13 Feb 2012, 12:19 AM
I think it's really helpful, but then I like romans, so I like looking after my troop. Turns out I've been upgrading early. Ignore the teuts, their lives are worthless anyway. A clubbie is only consuming wheat which would feed an axeman anyway.

Jakeyyy
13 Feb 2012, 09:44 PM
Ignore the teuts, their lives are worthless anyway.

Hey! The teutons have feelings to you know! :O

There are a few things that I have no idea about in travian, and this is one of them, thanks Jawwwwshy baby <3

Milamber
20 Sep 2013, 10:18 AM
Hi Jawwwwsh...

This is really helpful for my Romans and makes sure I can be nice an economic when upgrading my ECs (as they are very expensive to build).

However, I was wondering if there was a reason you omitted Rams and Cats from the list?

jawwwwsh
20 Sep 2013, 02:29 PM
I simply didn't have the data available to me at the time!!

Since I wrote this guide, Gettertools have released a calculator with up to date numbers (slightly different to my old ones) and it can be found here (http://www.gettertools.com/ts3.travian.co.uk.2/33-Technology-calc.). It includes catapults and Rams!

septimus ii
20 Sep 2013, 04:30 PM
Be careful with cats and rams, because their smashing power is different to their attack value. Kirilloid (http://travian.kirilloid.ru/troops.php#s=1.36&tribe=1&s_lvl=1&t_lvl=1&unit=8) as ever provides the smashing powers if you want to work it out, but my suspicion would be that using the attack or even defense values on gettertools would give you roughly the same times to upgrade them.

EDIT: Also bear in mind that on the uk5 birthday server, upgrades are both cheaper and more effective, due to the way the formulas are linked to wheat consumption.