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Thread: Anvil Productions

  1. #1
    Junior Teuton Member angL's Avatar
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    Default Anvil Productions

    Introduction:
    In this guide, I'm going to show you how many defensive units you can get in one village without GS/GB, calculated with level 20 buildings, researches and Watering Place for Romans.
    • This guide is intended for Travian 3.6, Normal Servers. For speed servers, you would only have to multiply the numbers for appropirate speed.
    • I originally sat down to compile these numbers to remove the myth: "Teutons can't build Anvils".
    • This will be an objective thread that will only deal with numbers.
    • For the purpose of this guide, I've ignored tribes' wall defenses. This is because of following reasons:
      1. The walls are supposed to be balanced within themselves, like Roman Wall providing the biggest bonus but very vulnerable, Teutons being the exact opposite, and Gauls being somewhere in between.
      2. For when this guide would actually be relevant (After first quarter of the server), you will be likely playing in an alliance and reinforcing random players / WWs. So the wall level is irrelevant for this reason.

    Last edited by angL; 27 Feb 2010 at 12:32 PM.

  2. #2
    Junior Teuton Member angL's Avatar
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    Default Individual Troops

    Individual Troops
    This post will show how many defensive troops each tribe will build in twenty-four hours with level 20 buildings. I've naturally omited Scouts from the list. I also left Macemen and Swordsman for being objectively worse than Spearman and Phalanx, respectively. I've also left Teutates Thunder for being worse than any other alternative Gauls have. You can see for yourself which units produce the highest amount of defense per day, for a specific purpose or in total.


    Code:
    Nm  Wh  Name		Inf.	Cav.	Tot.
    
    Teutons:
    553 553	Spearman	26046	44682	70728
    257 514	Paladin		34617	13852	48469
    208 624	Tutonic Knight 	13998	21008	35006
    
    Gauls:
    595 595	Phalanx		32070	40043	72113
    205 615	Haeduan		13796	45551	59347
    241 482	Druidrider      37330	17858	55188
    
    Romans:
    400 400	Legionnaire	18840	26920	45760
    351 351	Preatorian	30712	16532	47244
    303 606	Equites Imp. 	26512	20391	46903
    227 681	Equites Cea. 	24447	32097	59544
    
    Nm: Number of this unit produced per day.
    Wh: Daily wheat consumption.
    Inf: Infantry Defense.
    Cav: Cavalry Defense
    Tot: Total Defense.
    Last edited by angL; 26 Feb 2010 at 11:02 PM.

  3. #3
    Junior Teuton Member angL's Avatar
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    Default Anvils

    Anvils
    In this post, I will compare different options to build in your anvil / defense villages.


    Code:
    Wheat	Units			Inf.	Cav.	Total
    
    Teutons:
    1067	Spearman & Paladin	60663	58534	119197
    1177	Spearman & Teutonic Kn. 40044	65690	105734
    
    Gauls:
    1210	Phalanx & Haeduan	45866	85600	131466
    1077	Phalanx & Druidrider 	69400	57901	127301
    
    Romans:
    1006	Legionnaire & Equites I. 45352	47311	92663
    1081	Legionnaire & Equites C. 43287	59017	102304
    957	Praetorian & Equites I. 57224	36923	94147
    1032	Praetorian & Equites C. 55159	48629	103788
    
    Wheat: Daily wheat consumption.
    Inf: Infantry Defense.
    Cav: Cavalry Defense
    Best of Total Defense:
    1. Phalanx & Haeduan [131,466 Def, 1210 Wheat, 108 Def/Wheat]
    2. Phalanx & Druidrider [127,301 Def, 1077 Wheat, 118 Def/Wheat]
    3. Spearman & Paladin [119,197 Def, 1067 Wheat, 111 Def/Wheat
    4. Spearman & Teutonic Kn. [105,734 Def, 1177 Wheat, 89 Def/Wheat]
    5. Praetorian & Equites C. [103,788, 1032 Wheat, 100 Def/Wheat]
    6. Legonnaire & Equites C. [102,304, 1081 Wheat, 94 Def/Wheat]


    Top Three Infantry Defense:
    1. Phalanx & Druidrider [69,400]
    2. Spearman & Paladin [60,663]
    3. Praetorian & Equites I. [57,224]


    Top Three Cavalry Defense:
    1. Phalanx & Haeduan [85,600]
    2. Spearman & Teutonic Kn. [65,690]
    3. Legonnaire & Equites C. [59,017]
    Last edited by angL; 26 Feb 2010 at 11:02 PM.

  4. #4
    Junior Teuton Member angL's Avatar
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    Default Hammer vs Anvil

    Hammer vs Anvil
    In this post, I will compare how tribes' daily anvils fare against hammers.


    • I've calculated the hammers' attack powers with Kirilloid.
    • I've calculated for Barracks & Stables & Workshop, and without Great Stables & Great Barracks, for a period of 24 Hours. My reasoning was, I've calculated Anvil numbers without GS & GB so the numbers with G & GS for both would be more or less the same as these (although more in anvils' favours).
    • I only made the difference for Teutons for Axe and Mace, since there are people who are fanatic about one or another. For Gauls, I chose Haeduans, for Romans, I chose Imperians and Equites Caesaris.
    • I've given infantry and cavalry comparaisons seperately.
      • A check means the anvil meets or exceeds the hammer's given type of attack.
      • A cross means the anvil fails to meet the hammer's given type of attack.


    Last edited by angL; 27 Feb 2010 at 12:31 PM.

  5. #5

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    is it not possible to have phalanx,druids and haeds?

  6. #6
    Junior Teuton Member angL's Avatar
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    Default

    Of course it's possible to have an anvil composed of different elements. These posts only show you how many def of what kind you'd reach emphasising on 1 infantry defender and 1 cavalry defender for 24 hours.

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    Gaul MemberGaul Member yddraigcoch's Avatar
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    Default

    if its not to much work what about an adding the wheat consumption stats too the total def table please from there can work out the def points/wheat myself but to tired to do it now.

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    Junior Teuton Member angL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yddraigcoch View Post
    if its not to much work what about an adding the wheat consumption stats too the total def table please from there can work out the def points/wheat myself but to tired to do it now.
    Added wheat consumption and def/wheat lists to the total defense breakdown section. Please tell me if you want something else.

  9. #9
    Gaul MemberGaul Member yddraigcoch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by angL View Post
    Added wheat consumption and def/wheat lists to the total defense breakdown section. Please tell me if you want something else.
    tomorrows lottery numbers please but pm them to me as don't want everyone knowing them.

  10. #10
    Junior Teuton Member angL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yddraigcoch View Post
    tomorrows lottery numbers please but pm them to me as don't want everyone knowing them.
    4 8 15 16 23 42

    Good luck.

  11. #11

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    is it me or did that just prove that tuets are better than romand at deffence

    mind blowing
    we love you Tullia :tullia:

    .
    This is actually the worlds best sig itís just very small

    Please take my opinion even thogh i am allmost definately younger than you

  12. #12
    Junior Teuton Member angL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alistairods View Post
    is it me or did that just prove that tuets are better than romand at deffence

    mind blowing
    That was exactly what I thought after I had compiled all the data, but I didn't want to be the first person to say it out loud.

    [Spearman & Paladin] combination seems to be the third best overall defense foundation after Gaul defenses, the second overall best defense/crop, and second best infantry defense overall.

    Clearly, Teutons can't be played defensively.

  13. #13

    Thumbs up

    That's is actually a really good guide. Well done!

  14. #14
    Junior Teuton Member angL's Avatar
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    Updated the guide! Hammer vs Anvil where I compare anvils and hammers and mark where anvils meet to stop the hammers.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by angL View Post
    Updated the guide! Hammer vs Anvil where I compare anvils and hammers and mark where anvils meet to stop the hammers.
    This discussion makes no sense to me.

    I can't make head nore tail of the colourful table youve made. and surely an Anvil vs. Hammer discussion needs to be about what actually defeats what and actual production.

    It makes no sense at all to build an anvil with GB and GS, you would use barracks and stables in other villages.

    So for me when it comes down to what can be produced over what time it needs to be a comparison based on maxed out hammer production vs. what could be produced for the same amount of resources by an anvil.

    Also, to find the best anvil, we need to compare to various normal hammer types and see what size and makeup an anvil needs to be to defeat the given hammers.

  16. #16
    Junior Teuton Member angL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NosajDraw View Post
    So for me when it comes down to what can be produced over what time it needs to be a comparison based on maxed out hammer production vs. what could be produced for the same amount of resources by an anvil.
    There isn't a large amount of difference between resources spent on an anvil from Barrack/Stable, or a hammer without GS/GB. And as for resources, for the same amount of res you'd spend on a hammer, you can build an anvil 2,5 times larger.

    1. For example, a Barracks/Stable production costs 1 resource. For the sake of discussion, say it's the same for an anvil and hammer (while in reality Anvil costs are cheaper, since they lack siege weapons which I included in my calculations).
    2. B/S/GB/GS production would cost 5 resource.
    3. A hammer would have 2 Productions, while 5 Anvil Villages would have 1 set of anvil production.


    Quote Originally Posted by NosajDraw View Post
    Also, to find the best anvil, we need to compare to various normal hammer types and see what size and makeup an anvil needs to be to defeat the given hammers.
    I think, like there isn't a definitive discussion for what makes the best hammer, I believe the same could be said for the anvils. There are too many variables to consider. You could employ the best Infantry defense anvil and be swept out by a Ghost Hammer.

    It was the purpose of my calculations to have an idea on how well could an anvil fare. Amount of defense produced and such are calculable, solid numbers. I already crossed the line a little with comparaison to hammers, but even that is meant to be a guideline.

    It seems, for example, Spear & Pala production would provide better rounded defenses than Phalanx & Haeduan, despite the latter having more defenses overall.

    Or, for a WW Defense effort, all tribes could focus on providing highest amount of defense / day instead of shooting for rounded figures.

    Such observations were my objectives, and I believe I've reached 'em. If you'd like the csope of these series expanding though, I'm open to suggestions.

  17. #17

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    Personally, using your tables as a guide I would say the best defense mix for a single race is Phalanx and Druidriders.

    But I am far from convinced that your tables show things that can really be compared.

  18. #18
    Junior Teuton Member angL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NosajDraw View Post
    Personally, using your tables as a guide I would say the best defense mix for a single race is Phalanx and Druidriders.

    But I am far from convinced that your tables show things that can really be compared.
    I only compared the amount of defense that would be produced in a single day built non-stop. On what else ground could a tribe's anvil production could be compared against?

    I'd appreciate a sincere answer so I can work more on the guide. Thank you.

  19. #19
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    It seems you have gone for an infantry/cavalry mix defence for each. What about Praet and legs?

    Because really, nobody in their right mind should be building EI and EC as defence units.
    (apologies if I missed the praet/leg combo anywhere..I didn't see it in the first tables.)

  20. #20
    Junior Teuton Member angL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by commander View Post
    It seems you have gone for an infantry/cavalry mix defence for each. What about Praet and legs?

    Because really, nobody in their right mind should be building EI and EC as defence units.
    (apologies if I missed the praet/leg combo anywhere..I didn't see it in the first tables.)
    I know that Roman Anvils are usually a mixture of Praet/Lego unless when paired up with a Teuton player, etc. But for the sake of simplicity (And since I really don't know what kind of ratios Roman anvils shoot for when building their troops) I only listed all-lego, all-prae versions, but I could easily add a lego/prae anvil into the lists, if I knew what kind of ratios should I shoot for.

    And as for EI - EC defences; since Teutons and Gauls have the option of greater amount of defense foundation with running a barracks and stable simultaneously, I've thus also included them as an option should a person shoot for them. And given the fact that they offer not too shabby defences for their wheat consumption, maybe they should be considered for future anvil uses, at least at WW Efforts?

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