Results 1 to 6 of 6

Thread: Cap Hammer or Non--Cap Hammer and why?

  1. #1

    Default Cap Hammer or Non-Cap Hammer and why? Birthday server twist...

    Ok, I can't believe that this has not been discussed before,. It probably has but a search on "non-cap hammer", "capital hammer" and "where to build hammer" did not turn up anything at all.

    So at the risk of being annoying for starting an old conversation:

    1. Where do you think it is best to build a hammer - in your capital or in another village and why?

    2. As an extra point, which I am fairly sure has not been asked, do the birthday server rules make any difference?

    3. Finally, as a further teaser, do WWKs make any sense on a birthday server due to the huge defence that can be produced with the 50% wheat eating and trade routes? Will almost any size WWK simply be a small "fut" against a wall of troops a mile wide and a mile high?
    Last edited by Bob Hawken; 12 Oct 2013 at 06:05 PM.

  2. #2
    Cloud Strife

    Prolific MemberProlific MemberProlific MemberProlific MemberProlific Member septimus ii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    3,980

    Default

    On the last point, we might actually see people aiming at GWs and GGs again I haven't really seen that since T3.2


    The most common tactic that I've seen is to build a cap hammer for artefacts, then start main hammer building in a non-cap hammer. I might go into more details tomorrow

  3. #3

    Default

    I see the same tactic, or the player goes defensive.

  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by septimus ii View Post
    On the last point, we might actually see people aiming at GWs and GGs again I haven't really seen that since T3.2

    The most common tactic that I've seen is to build a cap hammer for artefacts, then start main hammer building in a non-cap hammer. I might go into more details tomorrow
    Having cap hammer til artes means you gotta start training earlier, but when compared to those who train in GB-GS you actually pay smaller price. Also you don't need to worry about chiefing, nor about sending res from supports til you have 30-40k wheat consumption of hammer.
    But later you gonna need many supports and ally push if you want to train hammer in non cap village, especially with trainer arti you should have at some point. However, as game lasts, you will have bigger res income, and you can manage most of res on your own though. If you don't have many support villages (my calculations in further text will prove that actually 10 supports is enough to send res needed for hammer, but only capital hammer) you can easily train cap hammer, but you need to start training at least 4 months before WWs to reach decent number, and constantly clicking same numbers for 120-150 days may be boring . It also depends on arti you own, your tribe...etc.
    e.g. without artis (assuming you train on your own, artis demand ally push as trainer artis mostly scream: Heey, enemies, claim me!!!! so you need to use them ASAP), I am aiming to get roughly same attack power as final result, only cap hammers taken into consideration:
    Teuts: http://travian.kirilloid.ru/off_calc...&hm=20,20&w=15 - note you may want to train cats cca 1 month earlier for all tribes!
    Gauls: http://travian.kirilloid.ru/off_calc...&hm=20,20&w=15 - you gotta start training 2 weeks before Teuts
    Romans:http://travian.kirilloid.ru/off_calc...&hm=20,20&w=15 -if you have HDT you can start roughly at same time as Teuts
    note for nearly equal attack power you need 136M res as Roman, 118M res as Teut, almost 147M res as Gaul (but Gauls will give you cca 1k more cats )

    and now for non-cap hammer, assuming GB/GS being run 24/7, aiming for nearly same off power as with cap hammer:
    Romans: http://travian.kirilloid.ru/off_calc...&hm=20,20&w=15
    Teuts: http://travian.kirilloid.ru/off_calc...&hm=20,20&w=15
    Gauls: http://travian.kirilloid.ru/off_calc...&hm=20,20&w=15

    In conclusion: Non cap hammer requires cats being trained for 120 days (at least), so this gives us total price:
    Gauls-256M res
    Teuts-213M res
    Romans-247M res.

    Also note that this requires 25-35 maxed supports (only for sending res) !
    And I think that makes my (and septimus ii's point) correct, as later in game you have bigger res income you can manage more army to feed and train too. Important thing to add is that Gaul hammer is somewhat worst, as it requires more res investment, and longer in training too, while my favourite Teuts cost 40M res less and faster in training than Roman with no HDT , but any Roman who goes for WWK must have it.

    I explained it mainly from economic point of view, I may have missed some factors like friendly/hostile surroundings, which may cripple your hammer production, etc. But I want to hear other opinions, as mine mostly work in ideal cases

    In end, cap hammer is manageble even for relatively new players, if there are experienced players willing to teach them, those new ones can move to 200/300 coords. Despite tough start, with acc being well organised they can grow 10-15 villages in first half of server, then train non stop til 11th month Without arti, they are not going to be first on enemy attack list, so they actually have good odds of surviving. Cap hammer also requires smart building, because some buildings need to be demolished (e.g. academy, forge, HM after they are maxed and all researches done and oases claimed) to free slot for granaries and warehouses (normal or great ones).

    Off topic: Septimus looks like I was faster than you as you haven't given any details so far, but I had extra free time, as I am waiting for my hero to claim arti, so need to do some work to get my mind of possibility I may arrive 2-3 seconds too late as cause of 7 hour trip.
    Edit: I got there in time

    Edit 2: If other members agree, we should try to discuss it from as many point of views as possible (e.g. raider, non-raider, players who are further or closer to centre, what to do in cases of attacks, what to do when playing speed, etc.) to get full picture of pros and cons of both cap and non cap hammers. Once all opinions are gathered, we can combine them to create "Cap or non cap hammers guide", because it is pity we don't have one (as thread starter hadn't found anything about this) and once done, admins can move it to "Information and Guidelines" section.
    Last edited by ray; 13 Oct 2013 at 01:19 PM.

  5. #5

    Default

    It has been discussed lots :p and the answer varies quite a lot by version.

    For the birthday server there are lots of variants that could increase or decrease WWK or defence sizes

    For the defence:
    higher due to half wheat and locations being fixed in advance making supply easier if planned
    higher due to 2x resources to easier to queue 24/7 in more villages
    lower, as Aslan points out, the server is CP constrained early on due to lack of artworks and that parties/balls only give the CP of the village rather than 500/2000, so less villages tends to mean less defence potential
    lower, if alliances take more than 1 WW which is rather more feasible with half wheat

    For WWK:
    lower due to players basically being out of practice at starting early on T4
    higher due to x2 production making it easier to start earlier and q' gb/gs

    Hmmm, so on this server, as ever, it probably comes down to personal choice...
    there is great potential for bigger WWK given x2 wheat (romans may not be so keen as HDT doesn't carry across) which points to GB/GS+AA
    but people do like the comfort of cap evade and I'm not sure many are in the habit of starting v. early

    http://archive.forum.travian.co.uk/s...ad.php?t=55763 is an earlier discussion from a slightly different perspective
    Last edited by Samantha78; 14 Oct 2013 at 02:32 AM.

  6. #6
    Cloud Strife

    Prolific MemberProlific MemberProlific MemberProlific MemberProlific Member septimus ii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    3,980

    Default

    Also

    WW Defense:
    Higher as 2x res production makes it easier to run parties, build CP buildings and build up supply villages
    Lower as merchants only hold half as many hours of troops' food
    Higher as population wheat consumption isn't doubled so supply villages produce more wheat

    WWK:
    Higher as it's easier to build a play hammer and not risk your WWK
    Lower as play hammers can put additional strain on wheat production
    Lower as roman hammers are harder to feed
    Raiding will likely to be very different, but it's uncertain which way this will play

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •