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Thread: Why is SMASH better than the hate meta

  1. #1

    Default Why is SMASH better than the hate meta

    Mercy asked for FACTS so here come the FACTS.

    Artefacts

    This system is specially designe for smash and hate in terms of how much help the arties give to both alliances.

    Level 0

    small confusion and small architects -0 point
    Since they are the most useless arties at this stage.

    Level 1
    Small storage - 1 point
    It is a pretty useless arty at this stage since most players should be done with it. But i still give it a point so that people don't call me biased.

    Large storage - 1 point
    Same reason as small one.

    Large architect - 1 point
    Not a very useful arty to hate or smash since both of them claim that they will not do a ww.

    Large confusion - 1 point
    Can't protect TCs, pretty useless since most people have enough catas to smash up a cap.

    small fool - 1 point
    small fool is an arty that can become handy in end game. Since the res income of players increased dramatically, storing res until aa activates and queue LOTS of troops becomes easy (not to mention some other effects). More importantly, the cost of transferring in relation to income becomes almost negligible.

    Level 3

    small hawk - 2 points

    Level 4

    small haste - 3 points
    Large aa - 3 points
    Large diet - 3 points
    Large haste - 3 points
    Large hawk - 3 points

    Level 5

    Small diet - 4 points
    Small aa - 4 points
    Unique haste - 4 points
    Unique hawk - 4 points
    Unique architect - 4 points
    Unique fool - 4 points
    Unique confusion - 4 points

    Level 6

    Unique diet - 5 points
    unique aa - 5 points

    SMASH! - 90 VS Hate/Hated - 72 points SMASH wins

    Conclusion: Smash does have more and better quality artefacts than Hate/Hated. Although hate holds a large number of large artifacts, a lot of them are pretty useless and can not help to build a great hammer or help with defending.

    Defensive successes

    SMASH!

    A total of 2.7 mil def points, which Im proud to say, mostly comes from hate/hated. (Do i even have to mention dojo's 700k/780k dojo's def points came from hate)

    4/5 of top 5 deffers (some epic battles were fought, and ofc, smash came out as the winning side)
    6/10 of top 10 deffers
    7/20 of top 20 deffers

    A total of 4.25 mils of off points, which quite a large percentage of them came from hate (we are only officially at war with the hate meta).

    0/5 top 5 attackers
    3/10 top 10 attackers
    8/20 top 20 attackers

    Hate/Hated meta

    A total of 2.05 mil def points, which, majority of them came from alliances such as warpath, GUT and NMS DA. Did have some successful defenses against SMASH.

    1/5 top 5 deffers
    3/10 top 10 deffers.
    7/20 top 20 deffers

    A total of 6.17 mil off points, which mostly came from NMS DA, Warpath and GUT. It shows that hate is certainly very successful in offensives against alliances apart from smash and some of them proved themselves to be great attackers.

    4/5 top 5 attackers
    5/10 top 10 attackers
    8/20 top 20 attackers


    Conclusion: Up to this point, hate had done well in both defending and attacking. However, against SMASH they achieved little success. They have failed to do much substantial damages to smash.

    On the other hand, SMASH seem to have gained less off points from alliances other than hate. However, both defending and attacking against hate had been successful.

    evidence:
    1. 220k hate off killed when trying to level sniff, nothing went through

    2. 345k hate off killed when trying to level ahab, nothing went through

    3. 592k hate off killed when trying to level dojo, nothing went through and with only 200k def killed

    4. A lot more hate hammers were killed including gual's off cap, hoska's, DD's and so on

    6. More Hate/hated caps were smashed up than smash caps
    • demon hit 5-10 caps including stumo, rampane, avalon, gual, inky, moog etc. alone
    • dojo caught mercy's hammer in an oasis
    • BC, imperator's cap was bashed, pete once lost his hammer vil


    6. As the result of the artefact war, smash had stolen following arties(already subtracted the arties stole back by hate).2 small diets
    1 large haste
    1 large aa

    Conclusion: In the war between SMASH! and hate, smash came out as the winner in almost every ways.

  2. #2

    Default

    I think I sort of understood all that.

    Claiming that you hit more HATE caps than we did yours is a difficult one to prove. Can you? And are you just comparing HATE v SMASH caps or are we looking at the server overall? Hate zero'd a lot of caps that didn't belong to Smash but did belong to our enemies. Are we including them too? If so, I think HATE would probably be well in front as we have had fun fighting other alliances as well as just SMASH.

    I would still point to the fact that whereas HATE look wider than just SMASH ie HATE CLEARED THEIR QUAD OF ALL OPPOSITION, Smash haven't and still see this server as nothing more than have they managed to be better than HATE on one server.

  3. #3

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    I like it Royal, like the artie system, dunno where level 2 is though

    Rather than just come back with insults, if anyone disagrees can they please post examples? Or just post more examples anyway?

  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dog View Post
    I like it Royal, like the artie system, dunno where level 2 is though

    Rather than just come back with insults, if anyone disagrees can they please post examples? Or just post more examples anyway?

    You mean like SMASH players did in the original comparison thread? Why not just post these arguments in that thread? Talk about an over inflated sense of importance. Love that you call us a meta because we have 18 more players than you

    I have to say though, this is a far better come back than Setbacks, I just don;t see why you need to keep starting new threads for a debate already started.

    I like your arti point scoring system too. I still think it is skewed though. I personally would value small artifacts about large ones in every case (except the uniques obviously). They are more portable and give better village benefits, which is usually as much as you need.
    Last edited by mercy; 24 Nov 2013 at 06:41 PM.

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mercy View Post
    Claiming that you hit more HATE caps than we did yours is a difficult one to prove. Can you?
    No, it won't be hard. Unless you can give/post more examples/reports to PROVE that you hit more smash caps.
    Moreover, we also hit apex, V and demons and i believe the alliance V and demons do not exist anymore. If you argue V-gut still exist, then what about gut-da? Also I did say that hate did great against their opposition within their quad? We've cleared out quad in a sense there isn't threat to us anymore. That shows how effective we are.

  6. #6

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    Producing reports proves only that you kept more reports than we did. I posted analyses of population changes in my original thread. They make it clear what damage has been done. We hit plenty of SMASH caps, just as you hit plenty of ours. The fact that both alliances are still here in strength doesn't indicate either one as a winner.

    My original post made it clear that as far as a direct comparison was concerned with real statistics then the two alliances come out very similar. I still hold to that. Instead of producing a load of new spin, why don't you discuss the true figures in the original thread?

    GUT-DA are spread across three quads, with as many players in YOUR quad as in ours. Surely you aren't comparing them to V GUT and Legacy?



    You claim to be posting facts, but you are still posting opinions. Why are Smash not able to debate the facts properly?

  7. #7

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    I don't see the point of hitting an alliance that has no threat to you when your biggest threat is still there. Why would we hit an alliance which will decay under what ever circumstances. It just shows we are better at planning how to use our hammers. Remember, we don't have as many players as the hate META. Although we have some nice hammers, we don't have those 10k, 20k hammers to waste on a player who just want to sim for whole server (did DA hit us? No). Thus leaving us the question of who, smash or hate, came out as a winner in their war. And the answer is Smash. You did hit plenty of our caps, but we simply hit more than plenty of your caps (we have facts but you don't, so you can't just argue "we just hit more than you did because i said so"). Also far more hate players deleted than smash player, and some of them had been hit hard by smash (ofc many deleted because of "other issues")

  8. #8

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    Opinions not facts. Again, we have 18 more players than you. That is not a substantial difference.

    The point I made was that we cleared our quad of all opposition. You have not. The facts are there to prove that.

    You claim to have won the war against us, yet we are still here in strength. The facts and figures are there for all to see. I have never suggested that Smash aren't good, you have also had the benefit of absorbing the Hostile alliance players, they were a superb alliance last S3 and have been a credit to you this round too.

    Perhaps I am sick of the constant derogatory comments and spin from Smash players on this forum and would like to provide substantial evidence that HATE are every bit as good as you are. Unlike you, I seem to have the numbers to prove it. Unlike yours, my numbers stand up to scrutiny. Unlike you and your players, I am prepared to debate these in a civilised manner, without the need for insults. However, whenever I do (see my valid comments on your points scoring system for the artifacts) you ignore what I have to say and resort back to trying to spin.

    Coming back to that, I would put the small fools highher, purely because it can give some good bonuses at this stage if you are active enough to take the benefit and the Unique Hawks smaller. Other than the power it gives scouts, the Unique Hawk has no benefit over a large hawk. As far as defending is concerned, it only helps if you are looking out for heroes. The Unique Confusion is far more useful at this point in the game.
    Last edited by mercy; 24 Nov 2013 at 07:39 PM.

  9. #9

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    Facts first, 64 former hate/hated palyers deleted and 64+76= 140 easy math
    17 former smashers deleted, 17+58=75
    This proves the difference was not "18".

    Same here, Im sick and tired of YOUR "constant derogatory comments" and your manipulation of data.You use what you claim to be the "true figures" (and i'm afraid your true figures don't support your argument) , yet you ignore the real figures. You keep saying you've got facts, yet where are your facts? You claim that our data doesn't "stand up to scrutiny‘, yet you can't prove them wrong. You claim that you debate in a "civilized manner", yet all i can feel from reading your posts is rage. You can't just say "this is wrong because this is wrong." evidence is what you need to support your argument. So many accusations yet not supported by evidence. I didn't come here for a fight, i came here for a argument/debate

    Talking about my system, yes, i would rank smalls above large, yet hate still has less points.

  10. #10

    Default

    When I read a post like that, garbled and obviously written in anger and frustration, I know I am winning the argument. Thank you for that

    I am not angry, I am more than happy to debate numbers, despite the fact that I am constantly insulted and harangued by members of your alliance.

    I am not manipulating any data. Please see the data I put in the original thread. Unlike you, I didn't make up any points scoring system to suit myself, I posted the exact numbers as they are. You seem to be averse to discussing those figures. I would like to debate them. I have stated repeatedly I would like to debate them. SMASH seem to be very reluctant to do so. The most valid points have come from none smash players.

    Your player retention this round has been excellent and you are right to be proud of it. I am really glad you and your players have enjoyed the server. This is a game, it is about enjoyment.

  11. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mercy View Post
    Producing reports proves only that you kept more reports than we did. I posted analyses of population changes in my original thread. They make it clear what damage has been done. We hit plenty of SMASH caps, just as you hit plenty of ours. The fact that both alliances are still here in strength doesn't indicate either one as a winner.

    My original post made it clear that as far as a direct comparison was concerned with real statistics then the two alliances come out very similar. I still hold to that. Instead of producing a load of new spin, why don't you discuss the true figures in the original thread?

    GUT-DA are spread across three quads, with as many players in YOUR quad as in ours. Surely you aren't comparing them to V GUT and Legacy?



    You claim to be posting facts, but you are still posting opinions. Why are Smash not able to debate the facts properly?
    Tbh im pretty sure my account has hit more of your caps than Hate has Smash caps. Im sure they are re-built (most the time) but the point still stands.
    Sorry for the above message and how long and horrendously written it probably is.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by JackDee View Post
    Tbh im pretty sure my account has hit more of your caps than Hate has Smash caps. Im sure they are re-built (most the time) but the point still stands.
    Tbh I'm very sure it hasn't. Tbh, this is a load of typical Smash BULL To be fair though, I do think you have been miles better this round than you were last round.

  13. #13

    Default

    You sense the anger because you are filled with it. For me, Im not angry. I like the fact you are defending your own alliance and thats what I am doing.

    The only reason that i designe the system is because you claimed that we have "larger number of useless artifact“。 Thus i put up the fact which could potentially prove that our artefacts are not useless. You also said you "like my scoring system too. I still think it is skewed though. I personally would value small artifacts about large ones in every case (except the uniques obviously). They are more portable and give better village benefits, which is usually as much as you need." and i explained that even if we rank the smalls above large, we's still come out as winner.

    Indeed, we enjoy the server with hate, smashing and getting smashed. I have no intention to degrade hate players, but we, Smash, did come to uk3 to prove we are better and thus that's what we are and will be fighting for.

  14. #14

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    RF, I am not angry. I can say that over and over, but since you don't know me I can only apologise if I come over that way on the forum. I do get frustrated with the insults and I dislike some of your posters, but seriously, this is a game, I just enjoy a good debate and prefer to keep it insult free.

    Now you have explained what you are doing, I appreciate that you are debating the point I made about artifacts in my original post. I agree with some of your point scoring system but not all of it, and to be honest, I think it is such a small part of the overall picture that I am willing to concede that Smash have slightly more benefit from artifacts.

    You may have no intention of denigrating HATE players, but there are some of your alliance players who have been appallingly insulting all server and given me no option but to feel I have to fight back. Smash have had a really good round this server. I would happily give you kudos for it where deserved, but not when I get muck constantly thrown in my face.

    When your more vocal forum posters can post a little more maturely like you, then perhaps we can have a proper debate.

    My alliance is great and the people I have played with over four servers deserve more than the derogatory flaming, insulting videos and general derision they have received from your players on this forum.

    I posted a carefully thought out alliance comparison, doing my best to try to remain as impartial as I could and received nothing but more insults and derision from your forum mob. I actually put SMASH ahead on 4 out of the 5 things I compared on and STILL your lot felt they needed to come and insult me, accuse me of lying blah blah blah. And people wonder why the forum is dead?
    Last edited by mercy; 24 Nov 2013 at 08:18 PM.

  15. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mercy View Post
    I posted a carefully thought out alliance comparison, doing my best to try to remain as impartial as I could and received nothing but more insults and derision from your forum mob.
    Don't fill the thread with lies. Simple.

    "I simply fight back", if you remember who started the forum war it would be better applied to SMASH!'s posters. Yeah, thank your master poster Moog whos offensive post count are beyond the SMASH! "mob"'s total.
    "I have edited your post and removed the section whereby you are encouraging moog to break the rules." -mod

    meh
    Uk3 - Round 5: http://www.travian-reports.net/us/img/2533830af11.png + http://www.travian-reports.net/us/img/24895058b28.png - I love to feed troops.
    http://www.travian-reports.net/us/img/2538802fcc3.png

  16. #16

    Default

    Setback

    This message is hidden because Setback is on your ignore list.

    View Post
    Remove user from ignore list

    I'm sorry, I hope you weren't talking to me, I gave up reading your contributions a long time ago.


  17. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mercy View Post
    Setback

    This message is hidden because Setback is on your ignore list.

    View Post
    Remove user from ignore list

    I'm sorry, I hope you weren't talking to me, I gave up reading your contributions a long time ago.

    Is that why you were in such a hurry when I mentioned that I'd do an analysis thread. "View Post" has been used more than once, you're not unlike Moog, try to remember that.
    "I have edited your post and removed the section whereby you are encouraging moog to break the rules." -mod

    meh
    Uk3 - Round 5: http://www.travian-reports.net/us/img/2533830af11.png + http://www.travian-reports.net/us/img/24895058b28.png - I love to feed troops.
    http://www.travian-reports.net/us/img/2538802fcc3.png

  18. #18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mercy View Post
    I posted a carefully thought out alliance comparison, doing my best to try to remain as impartial as I could and received nothing but more insults and derision from your forum mob. I actually put SMASH ahead on 4 out of the 5 things I compared on and STILL your lot felt they needed to come and insult me, accuse me of lying blah blah blah. And people wonder why the forum is dead?
    You knew tho, in your heart, that the analysis is a little bit biased so should be expecting people to challenge your argument. Although i admit that some of the posts in this forum are a bit aggressive, this blame can not be put only on our players surely. Its caused by the long existing relationship between you, moog and our players. So i suppose some of your players should also take the blame. Its quite hypocritical to say that its our players that discouraged others to post since I can still remember hate and apex saying bad things to some warpath players. Lets all step back and post in manners

  19. #19

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    Good cop, bad cop. Surprisingly effective.
    "I have edited your post and removed the section whereby you are encouraging moog to break the rules." -mod

    meh
    Uk3 - Round 5: http://www.travian-reports.net/us/img/2533830af11.png + http://www.travian-reports.net/us/img/24895058b28.png - I love to feed troops.
    http://www.travian-reports.net/us/img/2538802fcc3.png

  20. #20

    Default

    Of course I expected people to challenge my argument. Where exactly have I lost my manners? You have accused me of being angry, of being full of anger. That in itself is insulting and I find it very offensive, so although you are coming across as all reasonable, you have also repeatedly insulted me and tried to poke me to get a rise out of me. I'm not angry, I'm not full of anger. I'm actually quite a gentle person, but fiercely loyal and defensive of my friends.

    I'm not a saint, if people continually challenge and insult me or people I care about I will bite back. So you and yours remember your manners and I will remember mine.

    Now can we please get back to the original debate on the original thread?

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