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Thread: Pistorius - Guilty or not guilty?

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    Honoured Teuton MemberHonoured Teuton MemberHonoured Teuton MemberHonoured Teuton Member PinkFairyKing's Avatar
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    Default Pistorius - Guilty or not guilty?

    I dont often post in the Debate section but I wanted to know what you guys thought about the Pistorius trial.

    Guilty or not guilty?

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    Cloud Strife

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    Firstly, it's worth noting that he's indisputably guilty of shooting dead his girlfriend.

    The evidence does seem to be pointing that he's guilty of murder - shooting a burglar who's hiding in your bathroom is a bit strange, and there are a substantial number of small to medium holes that have been picked in his defence. But the lawyer for the prosecution is doing nearly as good a job as the lawyer for the defence in annoying me with their tactics - they're both being extremely aggressive, trying to bully witnesses into saying what they want.

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    Shooting a burglar in your bathroom certainly seems a long way beyond a bit strange for the UK - with our low rates of gun ownership and crime. I'm not sure it's quite so unusual in South Africa - there is a sense of probably justified paranoid that comes with living in a gated community. http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ry?id=23222575 includes some of the context

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    While most of the evidence that we have seen on television or newspapers points towards him being guilty... My gut feeling is that he isnt.

    The way he broke down during the trial just seemed so real, I didnt think he was acting. If he was acting then he is a seriously good actor.

    On the other hand it seems as though he has got away with things through all of his life. His family seem to have had quite an easy life, and he is used to getting what he wants. Also, he seems like he may be a bit "crazy" and he has a slight obsession with guns.

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    Like Sam said though, everyone has a gun in Pretoria. It is one of the most dangerous places in South Africa. I had a friend who lived in South Africa and they said that if someone broke into their house they would shoot first and think second.

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    Cloud Strife

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    I agree that the gun and crime culture there is utterly different to the UK, but a burgler locking themselves in a bathroom is rather strange.

    I don't think he needs to be acting to be guilty. For example he might have been in a rage, maybe alcohol fuelled, and got so angry with her that he shot her. Then sobered up and realised what he'd done and been horrified at it.

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    Mr Fantastic

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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkFairyKing View Post

    The way he broke down during the trial just seemed so real, I didnt think he was acting. If he was acting then he is a seriously good actor.
    Seriously? It was the worse case of acting since Halle Berry in catwoman
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    You dont get out of bed noticing your partner isnt there. You dont not wake them up if you think somebody is in the house.
    Who breaks into a private house/mansion to steal soap and shampoo?

    100% guilty.
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    You might not get out of your bed if you have no legs - while I accept that in day to day life his mobility is probably better than mine but at say 3am it becomes more a challenge for him - I would think it can make you feel very vulnerable and if you thought a burglar was in your bathroom (and remember burglaries are common place in South Africa; as is Gun ownership) and more than likely armed - you might shoot first, think later.

    Do I think he did it - not sure at all. The evidence on both sides is compelling but in the end I cannot shake the feeling that if he did intend to kill her, why plan it in such a way as to only give you a slim chance of getting off the charge? Not sure. I can say his crying and breakdown seemed a bit contrived.

    Sam, has it bang on that the culture there is much different to our own and what we consider normal many in South Africa would call it strange. If I recall correctly, most of the country are armed with all sorts of guns legal and illegal and that life does not have much value in some quarters.

    I also think that this trial is a bit of a show to the world.
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    These threads are always full of people who are so sure about how this or that would happen and what they'd do. A burglar may break in through the bathroom window, merely as an entry point. It doesn't mean they want to steal some shower gel...

    Anyway, the jury are best placed to decide on this case not anybody on an Internet forum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by commander View Post
    These threads are always full of people who are so sure about how this or that would happen and what they'd do. A burglar may break in through the bathroom window, merely as an entry point. It doesn't mean they want to steal some shower gel...

    Anyway, the jury are best placed to decide on this case not anybody on an Internet forum.
    Well... Not the jury... South Africa got rid of jurys in 1969(?) instead, the decision is made by the judge and the two assistants.

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    Ok, you can tell I'm not very interested in this 8)

    Still, bar some incorrect technicality on my part, my sentiment still stands.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Feenix888 View Post
    You might not get out of your bed if you have no legs - while I accept that in day to day life his mobility is probably better than mine but at say 3am it becomes more a challenge for him - I would think it can make you feel very vulnerable and if you thought a burglar was in your bathroom (and remember burglaries are common place in South Africa; as is Gun ownership) and more than likely armed - you might shoot first, think later.

    Do I think he did it - not sure at all. The evidence on both sides is compelling but in the end I cannot shake the feeling that if he did intend to kill her, why plan it in such a way as to only give you a slim chance of getting off the charge? Not sure. I can say his crying and breakdown seemed a bit contrived.

    Sam, has it bang on that the culture there is much different to our own and what we consider normal many in South Africa would call it strange. If I recall correctly, most of the country are armed with all sorts of guns legal and illegal and that life does not have much value in some quarters.

    I also think that this trial is a bit of a show to the world.
    Compleatly agree with this ^^ I have relatives from South Africa and when I asked them about this they laughed and told me that in no way did they think he is guilty because over there if someone goes into your house click, click, bang, bang. They said that it is only due to his high profile status that this has even gone to court at all and due to his upbringing with numerous burgelries and his mother shooting some of the burglars it makes sense that he would do the same. I take on board all the stuff about him not reliseing Riva was in bed and the thing about the locked toilet door but his story adds up and the way he shot the gun adds up too. I know in the UK this would be seen much differently but due to this being in South Africa I feel he is not guilty.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feenix888 View Post
    You might not get out of your bed if you have no legs - while I accept that in day to day life his mobility is probably better than mine but at say 3am it becomes more a challenge for him - I would think it can make you feel very vulnerable and if you thought a burglar was in your bathroom (and remember burglaries are common place in South Africa; as is Gun ownership) and more than likely armed - you might shoot first, think later.

    Do I think he did it - not sure at all. The evidence on both sides is compelling but in the end I cannot shake the feeling that if he did intend to kill her, why plan it in such a way as to only give you a slim chance of getting off the charge? Not sure. I can say his crying and breakdown seemed a bit contrived.

    Sam, has it bang on that the culture there is much different to our own and what we consider normal many in South Africa would call it strange. If I recall correctly, most of the country are armed with all sorts of guns legal and illegal and that life does not have much value in some quarters.

    I also think that this trial is a bit of a show to the world.
    That's assuming he planned a murder? Most murders are a result of rage/emotion.

    Quote Originally Posted by commander View Post
    These threads are always full of people who are so sure about how this or that would happen and what they'd do. A burglar may break in through the bathroom window, merely as an entry point. It doesn't mean they want to steal some shower gel...

    Anyway, the jury are best placed to decide on this case not anybody on an Internet forum.
    Seeing as this is mainly directed at my post... Defence already proved its nearly impossible for a person to access the building this way. Also Oscar said in his defence statement that he hear the 'intruder' go into the bathroom from the house, it was the door closing that apparently drew his attention.
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    Frankly this trial just irritates me... Too much ado about nothing. Somebody died another is tried for murder... Maybe convicted maybe not...

    Why it occupies so much bandwidth beyond the fact that it is about somebody famous...?

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    Yeah but you wouldn't really think about whether a window was accessible from the outside or not as your first thought.. (Years ago, my nan's house was broken into using the bathroom window as an entry point incidentally).

    Feenix's point was a good one - if it were premeditated, this doesn't seem to have been the simplest plan.

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    Mr Fantastic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samantha78 View Post
    Yeah but you wouldn't really think about whether a window was accessible from the outside or not as your first thought.. (Years ago, my nan's house was broken into using the bathroom window as an entry point incidentally).

    Feenix's point was a good one - if it were premeditated, this doesn't seem to have been the simplest plan.
    I don't think the prosecution are trying to claim that this was premeditated? Based on the amount of evidence they seem to have put forward they are trying to show that he has a hot headed violent temper.

    As for the shoot first ask questions later mentality people are arguing about I'm not sure how you don't notice your significant other isn't in the bed right next to you when you hear someone going into the bathroom....especially when he's claiming he was acting to protect her.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MLGJ View Post
    I don't think the prosecution are trying to claim that this was premeditated? Based on the amount of evidence they seem to have put forward they are trying to show that he has a hot headed violent temper.

    As for the shoot first ask questions later mentality people are arguing about I'm not sure how you don't notice your significant other isn't in the bed right next to you when you hear someone going into the bathroom....especially when he's claiming he was acting to protect her.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MLGJ View Post

    As for the shoot first ask questions later mentality people are arguing about I'm not sure how you don't notice your significant other isn't in the bed right next to you when you hear someone going into the bathroom....especially when he's claiming he was acting to protect her.
    Assuming he heard her, maybe he woke and assumed she was in bed next to him? Loads of times I have been to the bathroom and my significant other has not been aware. Heat of the moment and all that...

    Quote Originally Posted by boxerboy89 View Post
    That's assuming he planned a murder? Most murders are a result of rage/emotion.
    Good point
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    There were 2 people and a gun in the house. One came out in a bag. He did shoot her.

    Question is, was it murder.....the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another?

    He says he shot at the burglar through the door. So it was premeditated. He didn't know what he was shooting at, stupid. With a gun comes responsibility for your actions. Guilty as charged.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitmate View Post
    There were 2 people and a gun in the house. One came out in a bag. He did shoot her.

    Question is, was it murder.....the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another?

    He says he shot at the burglar through the door. So it was premeditated. He didn't know what he was shooting at, stupid. With a gun comes responsibility for your actions. Guilty as charged.
    No one is disputing he did it - question is did he know it was her or not. Premeditated extends beyond knowing you are going to kill - he would argue he had no such plans and so it was not premeditated. To me premeditated means actively planning a murder or act.
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