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Thread: Doing the Hokey Cokey with Europe

  1. #1

    Default Doing the Hokey Cokey with Europe

    So with a supposed referendum some time next year, does anyone have any thoughts on the UK's EU status?

    A number of folk I've spoken to (including myself) feel that there's a lack of credible information available - the rest is hype or propaganda. Some think the monetary costs of membership and the cost of open borders outweigh the benefits. Some argue the benefits outweigh the costs and then some with the labor and trade laws we benefit from. Then of course, there's 64 million other opinions on top of that.

    The awesome power of the EU debate is that it isn't just a foreign affairs debate; it's an economic, immigration, jobs, defence and foreign affairs debate. Considering the sheer scale, do we really know enough? The facts? Or is that just wishful thinking?
    "Itís only when the tide goes out that you see who was swimming naked."

    #MakeTravianGreatAgain #MTGA

  2. #2
    Senior Teuton MemberSenior Teuton MemberSenior Teuton Member Elisa's Avatar
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    I've read that the UK is actually a net monetary winner from being in the EU, because of all the deals brokered in the beginning. But that gets in the way of emotional responses aka "don't tell us what to do!" and "stupid EU rules about straight carrots!" -type of thing. It doesn't affect me a great deal... I'll still have a British passport even if the UK leaves the Union, but I think a lot of people tend to forget how many ways they enjoy EU benefits in terms of travelling abroad, visiting tourists and where they'd like to retire.

  3. #3
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    Check out my profile then guess my stance . However I'll happily debate the finer points of Union with someone of the opposite opinion should they reply below.

  4. #4

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    There is a lot of information out there if you go looking for it - some of it is even credible within reasonable limitations.

    One challenge is that it's not an exact science - people can make reasonable guesses on what might happen, but no one can accurately see into the future and guess what laws may be passed or the relative strengths of economies. Even the best work will be based upon a ton of assumptions (but should list those assumptions).

    As Elisa highlights, there are different ways to look at the decision - is it a financial one or is it an emotional one (and varying degrees in between including political) - and which of those drives how you think.

    The fundamental principles I tend to work on (not limited to the EU debate) are:
    - Better to positively influence from the inside rather than criticise from the outside (where possible)
    - Too much power in one entity is a dangerous thing (so specifically, a strong EU can only be a good thing to counterbalance the US, Russia, and China; and the balance of power between the political centre and the states has to be right)

  5. #5

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    While it may be better to influence from the inside as opposed to criticise from the outside, is that luxury really worth £50m a day to British taxpayers when business is burdened with more beuracracy and red tape, more costs with labor laws and more interference from Brussels? And does the British economy really make.more than £50m a day in return from EU membership or are we paying more than we need to? References to exact figures will be added when I get to my PC and and source them.
    "Itís only when the tide goes out that you see who was swimming naked."

    #MakeTravianGreatAgain #MTGA

  6. #6
    Senior Teuton MemberSenior Teuton MemberSenior Teuton Member Elisa's Avatar
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    You do realise, if the UK left the Union, there would be a hurried mass of trade agreements signed to avoid destroying the economy. All those laws and guidelines that people don't like, the UK would be forced to follow anyway (for example, the straight carrots thing) in order to trade with the EU.

    Many Norwegians are already quite frustrated at having to follow all the EU directives in order to trade, and the thing is, when you're not a part of the Union you cannot even have a say in those guidelines. It's like being in the EU without any of the benefits.

  7. #7

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    For companies that trade internationally, the theory is that it leads to less red tape. The end game of the single market is that you only deal with one set of red tape, not 25+ versions if you are trading across the EEA.

    http://news.cbi.org.uk/campaigns/our...utweigh-costs/ provides an accessible summary

  8. #8

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    How can we be sure that won't change, given how stubborn the Eu can be? I'm not saying what if we start seeing more bureaucracy, it's more the fact that the EU have said on a number of issues that they categorically will not budge. With such a lack of willingness to negotiate and comprimise like all good politicans have to do, how can we call it democratic?
    "Itís only when the tide goes out that you see who was swimming naked."

    #MakeTravianGreatAgain #MTGA

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