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Thread: How to defend while being offensive

  1. #1

    Default How to defend while being offensive

    I really want to start playing offence, since being deffer every freaking time gets a bit boring, but I just don't get how can people survive so long building only offence. I mean at early game of course you can just dodge all of the incoming attack, but what are you going to do when they bring Rams and Catapults ? I can't dodge anymore and defending with offensive troops is pretty useless as well.

    How do you deal with those attacks as offensive player ?

  2. #2
    The Troublesome One Honoured Teuton MemberHonoured Teuton MemberHonoured Teuton MemberHonoured Teuton Member Tombo457's Avatar
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    Hi there,

    It's actually a very good question you are asking, and I would highlight a few points in the game as key to avoiding attacks early doors to help an offensive player get settled in an area - and whilst I'll be using examples from speed servers, the principles apply exactly the same on a slow server however may be altered slightly.

    The first key point is getting settled early. This allows you the best chance to control your area as it gives you an all important head start in the race to build up your cropper, where hours at the start can translate to tens of hours by the time you are done. Once you have established a 2nd village you should still have some time to build it to a reasonable level before your protection starts to expire. The key once protection expires is your perception to other players, if players look at your village and think 'oh that's a high pop, I can't attack that' you have won the initial battle, and this is based mainly on your overall pop. There may be some that defy this rule and attack anyone, but as you said the initial raids can easily be dodged and your spawn can be used to produce some def if need be, but cropper wise I recommend diverting as little res as possible at the start of cropper development from building pure fields and infra as this will effect you later in the game.

    The second key after being a few days out of BP is assessing the competition. This may be slightly harder when you start a new server on your own with no previous knowledge, but you will get a general idea. Once you know your biggest threats, keep a close eye on their growth compared with your own. This is especially vital if you settle in/around the grey area, as the amount of players who settle there will be incredibly high and you are likely to be attacked by all four sides at some point. If you are in the grey zone with a big teuton raider for example, they have a huge advantage and there is little you can do to try save yourself but also become a big raider, as the increase in res from raiding has a huge impact on growth, which as mentioned above is the key factor.

    The third key relates to the last point you mentioned, siege. If you are central, with a lot of dangerous opposition, it is vital you assess this quickly and alter your strategy accordingly. This may mean perhaps sacrificing some cropper field growth in favour of producing rams and catapults, this may be bad for you short term but if you get a large amount of these first, it will again give you a good base in the longer term. Once you have a good amount of catas, you have to try and destroy the opposition croppers in one quick swoop, at the start of the game when a player has perhaps 3-5 vils, losing their cropper will more often than not mean an end for them on the server, especially if you are waiting with 3 settlers ready to settle their village so no one else occupies that space. As soon as you are finished with one, move onto the next if you feel there are any more that must be taken out initially.

    Another tactic with those who are competition but are slightly further away is to just play the longer game. Again, this focuses on your development being faster than your opposition, and once you are done with fields you will be able to create a large number of troops incredibly quickly. If they have focused on the same tactic as you, as long as you attack first they will likely not stand a chance.

    They key summary is:
    • Settle first
    • Assess the competition
    • Out develop the competition
    • Attack first


    EDIT: Sheesh, sorry for the essay, I just find early game the most interesting (and tactical) part of the game
    Last edited by Tombo457; 16 Jan 2016 at 12:14 AM.
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  3. #3
    Angelic

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    To tackle this question I think you first need to decide on exactly what type of style you want to aim for.

    In other words, do you want to build solely offence or are you hoping to continue with defence building while having a small offensive to play with? Do you aim to build offence for a 'bashy bashy' approach to the round or are you aiming for an artefact or endgame WW hammer? Do you want to destroy accounts with mass numbers or aid ally operations by harrying the enemies with quick supporting attacks/raids to wheat feeding villages/oasis?

    To directly answer your question, the answer is both a) Activity (used wisely) and b) Reliance on others.

    To expand point a) Activity (used wisely) - I've put this as to be a true offensive player, you need to have a steady income of resources through raiding. Raiding a large amount of resources comes from a level of activity that not everyone can have. There are two types of raiding > micro raiding with small amount of troops sent out on mass numbers of inactive accounts often and the other type of raiding done by scouting actives, alliance stalking population levels and generally trying to catch out active players. Those raiders you see in the bottom of the top 10 list will be doing one or the other and I guarantee that the top 3 raiders will be doing both.

    So how does this help them defend? Having a raid income means they don't have to worry about feeding the troops as they will be feeding themselves and then some more. The biggest problem for a sole defender is wheat. Not only are they feeding troops, but they are making those queues easier to prolong giving them leeway to do other things. Using the current server 5 as an example, its now week 11 and the rank 10 raider has raided enough resources this week for 9000 phalanx. My account in comparison is a sole defending account with low levels of activity and I only have 15,000 defensive troops in total. So if that raiding player were to suddenly decide they need some defensive troops and fast, they could mass spam build for just over a week and already surpass me in defence numbers. In other words, by being an active offensive player their defensive capabilities are actually higher than mine a sole defence player.

    While I'm not saying an offensive player will stop offence and do defence for a week or two, they might spend a day of resource production a week on defence and as a result end up as a mid level defender.

    The next point b) reliance on others is something any good player should have anyway. This is support from your alliance that is strengthened by good pre to early round communication. If you know who plans to play offence and who plans to play defence at the start of the round you can group them together and co-ordinate where you settle so you have key defenders close. As a defender, I'm perfectly happy to defend any offensive players in my alliance, but in return I expect them to help me out in return if I need anything clearing. This is why you as an offensive player should be actively keeping in touch which your defenders even if its just general chat. Another important reason for this is that its a lot easy for an alliance to absorb a little amount of defence losses across members as a whole compared to a big loss on a single account making them vulnerable.
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  4. #4
    Honoured Teuton MemberHonoured Teuton MemberHonoured Teuton MemberHonoured Teuton Member PinkFairyKing's Avatar
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    There isnt really much I can add to the two posts above :p Apart from never defend with your offence troops as their defence points are very low. Your troops will die without helping you out much if at all. As wgn said you should find a good alliance that are willing to defend together, and in return you can help with attacking.

  5. #5

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    Pretty much what the above players said. If you want to play pure offense, you will attract a lot of attacks. I am currently rank 7 attacker, rank 7 hero on my server, but rank 4 defender (behind 3 WW players - cries). The only good thing here is that this means I have killed almost everyone that has come to try and pay me back

    As the above posters said, you have to out grow and then kill any offensive players around you who are not interseted in cooperation. What is INCREDIBLY important is befriending defensive players. And I mean 4-6 of them. Expect to lose about half of them to inactivity throughout the server. Always clear oases for them. Always help them chief. Always banter with them and let them know you love them. Because when other players come for you, you are reliant on them:

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  6. #6
    MartinJames's Avatar
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    Trust your alliance for defense as well. Don't shout for def every time you see incoming, but if you think its a serious attack get onto your leader/s and ask.
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  7. #7

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    Never leave your troops at home so if you are away for 8 hours( maybe some people sleep) then send your troops on a 4 hr March so they arrive back just after you get back online that way if you are raided it's only res that is lost and if you still have troops you can get your revenge Mwwha !!! And chances are your attacker will be still attacking unaware of your troops. That is the perfect opportunity to chase their army home. The more hard work you put in at the start the easier it is later on.

  8. #8

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    One account I played I produced two armies (roman) which were about 220k and 350k consumption in size. In addition to that I had over 500k praetorians of my own. The key to that is activity and farming which mainly fuels one (two if you are extremely active) of your armies, while the rest of your villages produce deff, except for a few to fill in gaps in your armies to keep the queues rolling.

    This is even easier now after the t4.4 update that boosted production with like 20%, making villages almost capable of queueing themselves with deff 24/7. Essential for this is having a good capital though.

    Also, you should make friends in your area with people who main deff.

  9. #9

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    I remember fighting mafia gang in the old sim city he had about 3 good armies as a tuet there is a video on YouTube
    "fightclub (fcuk)" don't play with kids around as its 2pac playing but respect to mafia for a great battle. It is a case of raiding for food. Another player "essence" used to build some great hammers but feeding them is always the main problem and she didn't raid so the other alternative is for you to find foster homes for troops so you are still able build more.
    Last edited by Keyser soze; 23 Jan 2016 at 11:23 AM. Reason: Cos I never read back before posting lol
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  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tombo457 View Post
    Hi there,

    It's actually a very good question you are asking, and I would highlight a few points in the game as key to avoiding attacks early doors to help an offensive player get settled in an area - and whilst I'll be using examples from speed servers, the principles apply exactly the same on a slow server however may be altered slightly.

    The first key point is getting settled early. This allows you the best chance to control your area as it gives you an all important head start in the race to build up your cropper, where hours at the start can translate to tens of hours by the time you are done. Once you have established a 2nd village you should still have some time to build it to a reasonable level before your protection starts to expire. The key once protection expires is your perception to other players, if players look at your village and think 'oh that's a high pop, I can't attack that' you have won the initial battle, and this is based mainly on your overall pop. There may be some that defy this rule and attack anyone, but as you said the initial raids can easily be dodged and your spawn can be used to produce some def if need be, but cropper wise I recommend diverting as little res as possible at the start of cropper development from building pure fields and infra as this will effect you later in the game.

    The second key after being a few days out of BP is assessing the competition. This may be slightly harder when you start a new server on your own with no previous knowledge, but you will get a general idea. Once you know your biggest threats, keep a close eye on their growth compared with your own. This is especially vital if you settle in/around the grey area, as the amount of players who settle there will be incredibly high and you are likely to be attacked by all four sides at some point. If you are in the grey zone with a big teuton raider for example, they have a huge advantage and there is little you can do to try save yourself but also become a big raider, as the increase in res from raiding has a huge impact on growth, which as mentioned above is the key factor.

    The third key relates to the last point you mentioned, siege. If you are central, with a lot of dangerous opposition, it is vital you assess this quickly and alter your strategy accordingly. This may mean perhaps sacrificing some cropper field growth in favour of producing rams and catapults, this may be bad for you short term but if you get a large amount of these first, it will again give you a good base in the longer term. Once you have a good amount of catas, you have to try and destroy the opposition croppers in one quick swoop, at the start of the game when a player has perhaps 3-5 vils, losing their cropper will more often than not mean an end for them on the server, especially if you are waiting with 3 settlers ready to settle their village so no one else occupies that space. As soon as you are finished with one, move onto the next if you feel there are any more that must be taken out initially.

    Another tactic with those who are competition but are slightly further away is to just play the longer game. Again, this focuses on your development being faster than your opposition, and once you are done with fields you will be able to create a large number of troops incredibly quickly. If they have focused on the same tactic as you, as long as you attack first they will likely not stand a chance.

    They key summary is:
    • Settle first
    • Assess the competition
    • Out develop the competition
    • Attack first


    EDIT: Sheesh, sorry for the essay, I just find early game the most interesting (and tactical) part of the game
    Great article

  11. #11

    Default

    I find Travian is based quite heavily around team work. A lot of people can play offensive and defensive, either equally or prioritising one over the other. There are also times when players fully dedicate to one or the other and rely on the alliance for support in other areas. While reliance on others shouldn't be mistaken for laziness or stubbornness, I would argue the teamwork element is a key part of the game. My own experiences have been to join big accounts or dual on big accounts and throw myself in the deep end. If that's not available to you, then start small on your own account. There's some good advice on hammer building (Gold Buyer's Guide to a Mid-Game Hammer). There's tons of advice out the in the strategy section but there are elements of some guides I find aren't very balanced (EC vs EI argument / Mace vs Axe argument). Unless you're planning to jump straight in to a Wonder World Killer, I wouldn't worry too much about the finer details - you already know off troops can't be used for defence and knowing which troops are offensive is half the battle
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