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Thread: Travian: Legends Lessons learned and new features from Scattered Empire!

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elisa View Post
    Try looking after your new players and you'd have more people buying gold - I'm going blue in the face here repeating this - but they leave because they exit BP and are faced with dozens of incoming attacks from players using farm lists. Update the tutorial. Make finding & joining an alliance integral. Assist alliances in recruiting from a central listing. Kill farm lists or stop them farming single-player villages. Or heck, make each sent raid list cost one gold. There's your money-maker.

    ...but they didn't ask us, did they?

    Is there no concern over the sheer number of players who delete before v2? We all know how many there are, since they are our farms, and the number is staggering. Why is their retention not a serious concern?! Is their money not shiny enough?
    I suppose they have statistics backing up alot of their claims. But I fear it is very skewed, such as this "largely positive feedback" from SE, which in no way represents the overall playerbase.

    There may be some absurd curve that tells them income goes up as player numbers go down, if less competition means more gold buying, when you see the opportunity to make your account a god unchallenged. As a company, income is number 1 priority, and as long as the stocks are rising, their shareholders and investors are happy, and no change is needed to keep players. Only problem is that this rising curve will plummet at some point, when the big spenders figure out that there is no point anymore, there will be no slope.

    So they need a way to keep both new and recurring players engaged, and this is NOT the way to do that.

  2. #22
    Mr Fantastic

    Well-Known MemberWell-Known MemberWell-Known MemberWell-Known Member MLGJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elisa View Post
    Try looking after your new players and you'd have more people buying gold - I'm going blue in the face here repeating this - but they leave because they exit BP and are faced with dozens of incoming attacks from players using farm lists. Update the tutorial. Make finding & joining an alliance integral. Assist alliances in recruiting from a central listing. Kill farm lists or stop them farming single-player villages. Or heck, make each sent raid list cost one gold. There's your money-maker.

    ...but they didn't ask us, did they?

    Is there no concern over the sheer number of players who delete before v2? We all know how many there are, since they are our farms, and the number is staggering. Why is their retention not a serious concern?! Is their money not shiny enough?
    Completely disagree with this, Travian has bent over backwards to try and keep new player by making it easier and more dumbed down, much to the detriment of the game (Stuff like removing teut cranny dip, limiting waves per second, making faking so expense it's virtual gone from the game) I some how managed to play with game with no tutorials, getting battered first server and learning from it. I'm amazed these days at the complete lack of attacks I get when coming out of BP. This UK1 I was on v3 before I even had my first scouting of spawn let alone raid on it.

    New players have never had it so easy, overpowered heros at start, free troops, extended BP, 40% more resources...what are you advocating giving everyone 10 villages at start!!

    Edit personally I put the decline in numbers down to Travian driving people away with insane game changes whilst on insisting it's for our benefit and wants.
    Last edited by MLGJ; 28 Apr 2016 at 11:26 PM.
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  3. #23

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    Im concernd about The changes. The troopforwarding should be limitetd to account owner and sitter. That will take care of the problem with only 1 deffcoordinators. Though this Will still create a deff hub in small diet. But it should be the owner/sitter of an account that is only 1 to move it.

    I actually like The idea that they wanna change the game to more offensive way. Since t4,4 with the increase of resourses tipped the balance to deff part. For moderate-high gold users. They can build extream amount of deff. Like my deffer Linda used 3600 gold and built 1,5 million pratorians before day 80. With 15~20 players like this in an ally your ww is pretty much untouchable cause of the shorter server and lack of enough training time. So as i see it t4,4 only benefits defence. And i think its really easy to build defense if you know the game. Newcomers will always be run over by top players.

    So from a top player top attacker point of view and gold abuser. Some servers up over 40 k gold. This merging of troops if to insane. If you can afford to merge with gold. Then 1 Huge hammer... And i use to be able to run 6 hammers with uniq trainer and gb/gs running full time.

    People now talk about The insane wwhammer that can be built. Im more worried about how overpowerd uniq boots will be. Cause im 1 of the players that sometimes abuse gold to sim a village next to an enemy. 1 time me and Ravi dropped 8 villages at same time next to a enemy. Golded 2 up and took his cap oasis. Just imagine if i then could have merged a hammer there? I could have crippeld that acc in a night. That is to overpowerd.

    So what changes can be made that give offense a little boost.
    1. Take away the stupied moralebounus given to small players. Noobs will never learn and should not have handicap. And The hard built offense will take to long to rebuild. This gives a extra push to offense players. Cleaning out farms and small players should not cost this much troops.

    2. Its a bit more radical suggestion but brings action. Why not bring back the "instant recall troops" for gold. Yes it benefits offensive gold users but nowhere near as much as mearging troops.

    3. Adjust the troop building time. Let train a little bigger hammers not 10~20 Times bigger hammers.

    4. More culture points for party and artworks again = more villages = more resourses = more npc.

  4. #24
    Senior Teuton MemberSenior Teuton MemberSenior Teuton Member Elisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MLGJ View Post
    Completely disagree with this, Travian has bent over backwards to try and keep new player by making it easier and more dumbed down, much to the detriment of the game (Stuff like removing teut cranny dip, limiting waves per second, making faking so expense it's virtual gone from the game) I some how managed to play with game with no tutorials, getting battered first server and learning from it. I'm amazed these days at the complete lack of attacks I get when coming out of BP. This UK1 I was on v3 before I even had my first scouting of spawn let alone raid on it.

    New players have never had it so easy, overpowered heros at start, free troops, extended BP, 40% more resources...what are you advocating giving everyone 10 villages at start!!

    Edit personally I put the decline in numbers down to Travian driving people away with insane game changes whilst on insisting it's for our benefit and wants.
    Unh... we still have the teut cranny dip, and who fakes or sends multiple waves on newbies without siege?

    We all stuck around and found out how to play but all of us here are probably a bit special. For many of us it's because we were lucky enough to find a mentor or a great alliance, or were introduced to the game by someone we already knew. For those who don't know anyone, it's a lonely and painful start. The hero power, free troops, res etc that you mention are taken advantage of those who know how to use them in order to attack those who don't, and we far and away pick on the players with no alliance.

  5. #25
    Mr Fantastic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elisa View Post
    Unh... we still have the teut cranny dip, and who fakes or sends multiple waves on newbies without siege?

    We all stuck around and found out how to play but all of us here are probably a bit special. For many of us it's because we were lucky enough to find a mentor or a great alliance, or were introduced to the game by someone we already knew. For those who don't know anyone, it's a lonely and painful start. The hero power, free troops, res etc that you mention are taken advantage of those who know how to use them in order to attack those who don't, and we far and away pick on the players with no alliance.
    You only have teut cranny dip if hero is sent with the troops, not every new player starts on the first day of the server, plenty start when there's already siege about. We all stuck around yes, not because we are special but because we enjoyed the game, were willing to put the time into it, decided to get better because it was a game we enjoyed. I wasn't lucky enough to find a mentor or a good alliance first server, quite the opposite. As for your second bit of that "or were introduced to the game by somone we already knew" hits the name on the head......those players have gone from the game, those players that brought new players into the fold.

    The question should not be why are new players leaving, every game out there has people who try it for 15 mins and give up, it's why did the majority of players leave the game *cough T4x *cough
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  6. #26
    DMR
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    The blog is the result of having developers write political language. As we all know political language is designed to deceive.

    Let me translate some of the jargon:
    - "So defending got easier. Defending is buffed. We need to buff the offense as well.": The suggestion here is that the only way to achieve this, is the merge-function. Which is of course utter nonsense. There's many other ways, just none of them will rake in the amount of gold that merging would.
    - "We’ve discussed different approaches as well, e.g. just buff training times, but these changes would buff defensive players as well. As they are already buffed, these ways wouldn’t achieve what we wanted to achieve.": This one borders classic double-speak. The merge feature would buff both defenders AND offense players, so following this line of logic, offense players will need even another buff to make it even.
    - "and the feedback we’ve got was pretty good": Feedback was awful on the merge feature, but it's our main cash-cow in this new plan, so we must raise the suggestion some positive feedback was given as well, by mopping it onto 1 overall assessment.
    - "it is a pretty normal way nowadays to offer a shortcut for gold": So far the short-cuts have all been in the category "slight advantage". Merging troops would make it nothing less than pay-to-win. This will work for 1 or maybe 2 servers, but I predict a declining population afterwards.

    Don't do it. The feedback on the forum, of your community, is very clear and cannot be interpreted in any other way.
    Last edited by DMR; 29 Apr 2016 at 02:56 PM.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by MLGJ View Post
    Travian has bent over backwards to try and keep new player by making it easier and more dumbed down, much to the detriment of the game
    Exactly! Travian are so desperate to attract new players they lose sight of what drew people to the game in the 1st place and end up alienating everyone!

    To say farm lists are the reason for all for new players quitting is pretty naive. Farm lists are pretty much always used to collect res from players already inactive, not to beat someone into submission. You have to be pretty clueless to add active players onto a farm list and expect to make a profit! New players quit because they've had their 50 lego and hero wiped out by their nasty Teut neighbour with x10 their number of troops, not by 2 swords hitting their spawn every 30mins!

    Maybe we should just remove attacking from the game pre artes and all just learn to love one another!

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Presuming Ed View Post
    Maybe we should just remove attacking from the game pre artes and all just learn to love one another!
    I love you already Ed <3 Maybe they could make it that whoever has the most friends wins.
    Quote Originally Posted by antonio View Post
    You just jump around like a tart.
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    MJ may be many things: a 15 year old who's raided his dads dress up box, a huge ego-loudmouth and a goat botherer to name but a few, but he generally writes a fair and unbiased analysis (except when I bribe him to say good things about me)

  9. #29

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    I don't have the energy to read everything everyone has written above, but I am fairly sure I can get the gist of it.

    The comment I posted on Jake's blog:

    The proposed changes are an obscene implementation of a feature which has been developed for a game which is a long way removed from that of traditional Travian. The troop relocation system seems to be an ill thought out addition to the Travian Legends game. It is a system that will simply enable those at the top with large amounts of spare cash to progress rapidly, and those at the bottom to become worthless and incapable of producing any reasonable army sizes.

    The entire point of the traditional Travian game servers is that everyone is given “equal” opportunities, whether they spend money on the game or not. You are proposing, with very little notice, to add a feature to the game without proper consultation and thought, you have not even begun to carry out the necessary due diligence on such a dramatic change to the game. To attempt to implement these new systems into the game without an open forum with current players is just silly, and to not do so it tantamount to signing the death warrant of your game in my opinion. I cannot find a single player who has been asked about these changes, whether they have played a scattered empire server or not.

    The dynamic of the game will change horrendously, it will become impossible to ever defend a WW with the potential gains in hammer sizes, and the reduction in defence numbers throughout the server as more defence will be lost to protect ‘super hammer’ villages. The usage of artefacts will change completely, the ability to chief hammers will be removed entirely, and the way accounts are played will change so dramatically that only a very small minority of the players will be able to succeed, and only those with a number of friends and fellow alliance members will be able to make any gains. You have entirely ignored the fact that the game is centred around a WW race, not a constant attack and defend system as in SE.

    You appear to be trying to implement the feature in the vain hope that it will increase revenues, or that it will make it easier for new players to get involved. Unfortunately from everything that I can possibly see it will simply make it easier for the experienced players to accelerate far ahead of the new ones and reduce the player base even further.

    Oh, and maybe take a second to look here if you feel particularly aggrieved by the situation:
    http://www.thepetitionsite.com/443/0...nlegends/#sign
    Last edited by nickkcraig; 30 Apr 2016 at 12:28 AM.
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  10. #30
    Senior Teuton MemberSenior Teuton MemberSenior Teuton Member Elisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Presuming Ed View Post
    To say farm lists are the reason for all for new players quitting is pretty naive. Farm lists are pretty much always used to collect res from players already inactive, not to beat someone into submission. You have to be pretty clueless to add active players onto a farm list and expect to make a profit!
    The fastest raid starters don't care whether players are active or not. Day 6: lose two clubs, who cares, you've already taken 1000 res from that player, and you still have another 98 clubs anyway, etc.

    Sure, most of us just farm inactives. But it only takes a couple of powerful raiders to mow dozens of newbies down. I'm not personally ruthless enough to do that sort of start but I've witnessed it first hand.

    Inb4: yeah it's a war game, newbies should probably suck it up sunshine. But it's kind of in our interests to want them to stick around. We can beat the crap out of them later when they might be able to fight back and keep things interesting.

    We have lives (ugh) and we always lose a few players to real life. We have to replace them with more players somehow. When that's not happening the numbers drop.

  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elisa View Post
    The fastest raid starters don't care whether players are active or not. Day 6: lose two clubs, who cares, you've already taken 1000 res from that player, and you still have another 98 clubs anyway, etc.

    Sure, most of us just farm inactives. But it only takes a couple of powerful raiders to mow dozens of newbies down. I'm not personally ruthless enough to do that sort of start but I've witnessed it first hand.
    Yeah that's true, but as I said before they are quitting because they have been attacked, not because they are on a farm list.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elisa View Post
    but they leave because they exit BP and are faced with dozens of incoming attacks from players using farm lists.
    Farm lists are not the reason for new players packing it in, if travian got rid of them the new players exiting BP would still get hit by their larger more experienced neighbour. The most active raiders would still be top of the farm table, hitting villas repeatedly with or without the FLs to help them.

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinJames View Post
    Maybe they could make it that whoever has the most friends wins.
    Yes, maybe this is the way to go?! We could have our friends visit our villages each day and click on our resource tiles to help them grow! Who needs war... Peace be the Journey!

  12. #32

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    Just gonna spit in here: a good raider does NOT begin raiding a player that is fresh out of BP just like that. A good raider scouts first, and a good raider leaves players that are clearly active alone until it is efficient enough to start cleaning and keeping active players down. 450 mill/week raider here.

    The players that are topping the raid lists week 1 because they immediately raid people fresh out of BP don't last long in the game, they are usually gone before week 3 because they couldn't keep up with their losses.

  13. #33
    Warning - irritant!

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    To be fair most the top raiders at the start don't even raid the players, tends to be oasis's

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